So you guys pumped? You ready? You know we did part one, which was ancient UFOs, and I am pumped, man. This is one of the things that we always talk about for years. This is the original, this is like the original conspiracy. I feel like we’re going to get the most flak for these episodes, probably because people that have been researching it their whole lives, they’re like, you idiot, you missed everything, you didn’t talk about this. I mean, the History Channel has figured out 200 episodes and we’re about to get four.

So I thought that we cannot continue, or I guess this is the perfect spot to talk about Roswell. I feel like Roswell was the birth of the alien conspiracy, the UFOs, and that whole thing. So I thought, hey, what is the story of Roswell? Eric, why don’t you tell us. Yeah, I was really curious what the story was. Do you guys know it pretty good? I know ish. I’m definitely going to learn today.

What’s crazy about this whole story is the Ancient Aliens crew on History Channel, they’re touring right now and they’re selling out arenas, which is bizarre. I mean, semi arenas, not a little pub. It’s not Taylor Swift, but I would pay. I wouldn’t pay to see those guys, maybe a promo. That’s what the History Channel’s for. Maybe we’ll get a media badge, try to get a freebie. If I get a media badge, I’d pretty much go anywhere. I think we need more followers for that though.

Okay, let’s jump in. Roswell. So sometime between mid June and early July 1947, a rancher by the name of WW Mac, what the hell does the WW stand for? I don’t know. William Wallace. So he found the wreckage on his property in Lincoln County, New Mexico. Side note, Lincoln County is the county that was the wars with Billy the Kid. Oh really? A little Tombstone trivia. And whoever says we don’t do research, eat a dick, here you go.

So this place is approximately 75 miles north of Roswell, right. And before this, there were several flying disc and flying saucer stories that appeared in national press that summer. So it’s 47. So it was a bit of a flying saucer frenzy, and back then you couldn’t really get your camera out, you had to spin the wheel. So Mac, because he knew about this frenzy of saucers, that’s why he thought it was something of that origin. It was the hot thing right now with the papers.

So this is what he found. He found rubber strips, tin foil, and thick paper. Classic UFO material. Some glue, some erasers. And also some sort of net, not net but a sheet. I want to say almost like an aluminum blanket, like a thin, very thin kind of one of those blankets that makes you warm. And if you’ve ever been to the Kennedy Space Center, you can get like an astronaut blanket, and it’s thin, made of foil. I don’t know how this keeps you warm, but it does.

So he brought all of the stuff to Sheriff George Wilcox of Roswell, who in turn brought it to the attention of Colonel William Blanchard, the commanding officer of the Roswell Army Airfield, which is the RAAF. The next day the RAAF released a statement writing that the many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th bomb group of the eighth Air Force, Roswell Army Airfield, was fortunate enough to gain possession of a disc through the cooperation of a local rancher and the sheriff’s office. So they actually found it. But in terms of what you said earlier, he had some rubber strips and some aluminum foil, like basic foil that looked like a hat, and some dowel rods, and some rubber strips. I don’t know what to say.

By the way, that whole story, I love how it’s the Mexican Congress, and there’s these little mini ones. We posted a thing about the Mexican Congress, it was presented by a researcher, these little aliens, and they were the corpses of aliens, three feet, they look really tiny, and they were preserved in some sort of thing, but they did scans of inside their body. It kind of looked like your kid did an art project, paper mache, and then a thousand years went by and like what the hell is this, and then you put it in a time capsule, you open it up later, it’s an alien. One of our best comments was, why do you think they got to be big? Why are aliens big?

So according to that statement, Major Jesse Marcel, an intelligence officer. The government then changed the story about it being a saucer a few times. I know that they changed it, and it was a balloon. So the following day, the Roswell Daily Record ran a story about the crash and their claim, but the US Army officials quickly reversed themselves saying it wasn’t a flying saucer, stating that they found debris and it was actually just a weather balloon. So they released photographs of Major Marcel posing with these pieces of the supposed weather balloon as proof. It’s funny because they literally have two days to just move the real stuff, and they’re like, all right, just give me some random stuff in the broom closet, look what we found.

But this was the beginning of where they sent out a release. The actual paper said that they found it, and then literally the next day it’s back and forth about it, and then they said no, this is a balloon. So what probably happened, the FBI or the CIA was like, what are you guys doing in Roswell? No no no, we’re sitting a consult out, handle this PR nightmare. But we had talked about this. The Roswell incident took place during this whole craze of 1947, right after, two years after the war. And there was a pilot named Kenneth Arnold, and he had said that he saw an object flying at incredible speed, and that kind of started it.

Arnold’s description of what became known as flying saucers ignited a wave of 800 sightings that year. 800. I feel like there’s probably eight valid ones, and most people just want to get in on it. It’s like, me too, I’m the one that saw two flying objects. Everybody wants a little bit of fame. It’s just people want attention. They’re happy to lie just to get it. I want the podcast to get attention, but I don’t want me personally to get attention. Many of these 800 accounts just basically repeated Arnold’s description, the exact same thing, seeing planes at incredible speed.

I’ve seen planes that had incredible speed and they were like glass domes and they had vapor trails and propellers, and I’m like, this is a plane, it’s an actual plane. So on the 4th of July in 1947, United Airlines flight 105 reported seeing multiple flying discs. During that summer Americans associated saucers with, they basically are now turning planes and other things in the sky into flying saucers. And then it became the extraterrestrials are visiting. Everybody starts to want to see the saucers, so anything in the sky now is a sighting.

So decades later, conspiracy theories claimed that debris from an alien spaceship had been covered up by the government. In response, in 1994, so many moons later, the United States Air Force published a report concluding that the crash object was a top secret nuclear test surveillance balloon from Project Mogul, which was a project they were working on with balloons to monitor other people’s capabilities of nuclear weapons via balloon surveillance. So you fly a balloon up to the stratosphere and no one can detect it, and it just hovers over. Yeah, let me see that nuclear. Clearly that failed. It’s like it failed out of New Mexico, couldn’t even get that thing out of the country.

Okay, so for decades UFO researchers were skeptical of them changing their account, which makes sense. So then in ’94 when this report came out, the US Air Force released a report where they agreed that the weather balloon story was bogus. What they’re saying is in ’94 they said okay, you got us, in 47, 50 years later, we made this up because we wanted to hide Project Mogul. But my thing is, it’s funny, the original guy who made the first statement said it’s true, there are flying saucers, they found pieces of a flying saucer. I don’t know how he could mistake a balloon for being part of a flying saucer. That’s why I think there’s more.

Well, except for, like we said, there were stories going around that year. But why would a military man go to that conclusion? And why would he talk about Project Mogul if it’s top secret? I would go with the other story, why even have a new thing, just be like it was nothing, it’s trash, a bunch of rags. You don’t normally hear the government say, yeah, we covered it up. But it was for a completely legitimate reason. National security, every single time, that’s the going statement. Just wait until we do 911. We were going to release it on 911.

So here’s some of the info from the explanation. They said the wreckage came from a spy device created for an until then classified project called Project Mogul. The device, a connected string of high altitude balloons equipped with microphones, was designed to float over the USSR. With the microphones we can hear the nuclear weapons. It was designed to detect sound waves at a stealth distance. So these balloons would monitor the Soviet government’s attempt at testing their own atomic bombs. That seems like such a shitty plan. Why would they fly some balloons over there with a mic on it? What’s it going to take? It’s just the worst idea ever.

So essentially at the end of that explanation was that the cover up was to hide the details of the spy work. Of course, we lied to you, it’s just, we’re doing super secret pro. So far you think they lied because it was actually a, no, for that high school science fair project idea, to go fly on the USSR, is ridiculous. Okay, so here’s the part you’re going to love. Some eyewitnesses said that there were bodies taken from the site. I have heard that. But this was explained in this 94 report as parachute crash dummies. What the hell.

So in our experiment we had to pretend that there was people, so Smith, go ahead and put a three foot high little alien crash dummy up on there, we want to see what it does. They think they won’t think they’re American if the dummies are really small. There is Project Mogul. Project muggle. So Roger Launius, a historian and curator for the division of space history at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum, says those two reports close most of the remaining questions about Roswell. And this is what he says, I quote, you do not divulge state secrets in the context of national security, my surmise is that they probably saw the initial flying saucer explanation as a useful cover story, end quote.

So Donald Schmidt, a UFO researcher who has spent nearly three decades investigating Roswell and is the co-founder of the International UFO Museum and Research Center in Roswell, says that the explanation makes little sense. The flying saucer story, he contends, was so ostentatious that it was bound to draw attention to the area with its sensitive military operations. At the time, doing so would seem highly counter to the interests of the war department. I agree with that, it’s a shitty cover story, because then people are like, oh, now I’ve got to go there. As opposed to being like, oh, a porta potty fell out the sky, I don’t know what happened, people are like, oh whatever.

So this is what Schmidt says. He says two hours west of Roswell was the first atomic bomb, and that was detonated, the first test. So remember, during the war we were testing, this is the whole Oppenheimer story, two hours west of Roswell. So that’s why they’re bringing the activity there. He goes on, he says you had ongoing atomic research at Los Alamos, you had all this testing of captured German V2 rockets at White Sands, and at Roswell you had the first atomic bomb squadron headquartered. The thought that they would have intentionally set up any type of publicity as a distraction, if anything they needed less attention not more. That’s a really good point. Even that point alone makes you think, okay, what actually happened.

What’s crazy in this whole story is that from 1947 the incident was essentially forgotten until 1978. It just kind of went by the wayside. And then the internet happened. So in 1978 retired Lieutenant Colonel Jesse Marcel was interviewed by a ufologist, which is my favorite word. Can we just call ourselves ufologists? Because there was no certification for ufologist. In that interview Marcel revealed that the weather balloon had been a cover story to divert public attention. Based on this Marcel speculated that the debris must have been extraterrestrial origin. His interview led to complex conspiracy theories about alien spacecraft recovery and military coverups.

So in 1979, this is over three decades later, conspiracy theorists began to claim that extraterrestrial occupants had been recovered by the military at Roswell. In response to claims of alien occupants, a second USAF report in ’97 reviewed testimonies about aliens and found them to be baseless, made up, or inspired by those parachute dummies that we talked about earlier. So conspiracy theories about the event persist despite explanations linking that incident to Project Mogul, the balloon, having been described as the world’s most famous, most exhaustively investigated, and most thoroughly debunked UFO claim. Its myth has become a cultural phenomenon.

And the Roswell incident continues to be of interest in popular media. This is in movies, people still go there, panhandlers still make money selling alien merch. Remember Independence Day, what a classic. Well, that was Area 51. What’s funny is I went there a month or two ago. I didn’t go do the alien tour, I went there for a reunion, and I flew into that area and there’s little alien keychains all over, and it’s like an alien bar. That’s the only thing making their money, without that it’s crazy, maybe they latched on to it just to survive. I definitely want to go check it out.

So just some more info on what was gathered up. When the debris was gathered up, the tin foil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long, seven or eight inches thick, and while the rubber made a bundle about 18 to 20 inches long and about eight inches thick. In all he estimated the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds. There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine, no sign of propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto something like the tin foil part. There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, meaning there was no alien insignia.

There was considerable scotch tape and some tape with flowers printed on it, used in construction. No strings or wires were to be found, but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used. There was some cardboard and some twigs, some crayons. And this is from Brazel, the guy we had talked about before, and that was his quote. So scholars of folklore have charted the evolution of the Roswell myth over the course of decades. They claim it began in the final year of World War II when Japan released thousands of fugo balloon bombs designed to cause damage and spread panic in the US.

What’s a fugo balloon bomb? It’s basically a balloon that you put a thousand of, and you would see where they land, you put them on the west coast, you fly them in, and then they have bombs in them, and eventually they run out of air and it hits a car, boom. A couple other stories about Roswell. Days after the Roswell incident, on July 11th, the press reported the recovery of a 30 inch disc from the yard of a home in Idaho, and on July 12th it was reported nationally that the Twin Falls disc was a hoax. Four teenagers confessed to creating the disc, then photos of the object were publicly released. The object was described as containing radio tubes, electric coils and wires underneath a dome.

The Twin Falls hoax, with its nationally published image showing an army officer holding a disc-like object of mundane construction, has been called the cigar of press coverage. So in 1949 a con artist tricked journalist Frank Scully and the magazine Variety into publishing the story of a crashed saucer with dead alien bodies near Aztec, New Mexico. The story told of humanoid bodies about three feet tall. There you go, Mexicans were right. What if they’re futuristic Mexicans, came back, we’re coming home. Including metal that is much stronger than anything found on Earth, and an alien writing found in the wreckage. These elements would later reappear in some versions of the Roswell myth. That also was debunked as a fake.

In 1989, in response to an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, an awesome classic, they discussed the Roswell bodies. Mortician Glenn Dennis recounted a story of a nurse who had assisted in an alien autopsy. So this just kind of fueled the flame. This one wasn’t legitimized nor was it debunked, it just kind of is a story. In ’91 Brigadier General Thomas DuBose corroborated the claims that the weather balloon was a cover story, consistently denied the existence of bodies. They were crash dummies. It’s just so weird that, why would there be a human dummy, it doesn’t make any sense. It doesn’t have to be an alien, it just, why are there dummies there.

So real quick I wanted to go over what was Project Mogul. The initial events occurred at the first summer of the Cold War. By 1947 the United States’ top secret project had launched thousands of balloons carrying devices to listen to Soviet atomic tests. In June of 47 researchers launched a long train of these balloons designated flight four. They tracked flight four flying northeast toward Corona and lost contact within 17 miles of Mac’s ranch. Remember Mac, he was the guy who founded it at the beginning. So they actually have on record one of the balloons got lost right around nearby the ranch. They didn’t find any microphone equipment in the rubber.

Essentially its purpose was to employ high altitude balloons equipped with microphones for the long-distance detection of sound waves that were generated by the atomic bomb tests. I just don’t know how you would discern a sound wave from an atomic bomb. The frequency, you would think you would be able to detect an atomic bomb via the frequency. Also, if they’re that high up there, what else are they going to detect as far as sound. It’s got to be something big to be able to catch it. What if a little meteor comes through, oh, they got the nukes, kill them all, they’re going to base it off of sound waves that they can’t really prove where it came from. It seems ridiculous to make a huge global decision.

So let’s move to 1980, and this is where the things got real, the myth of it all and the spicy started taking off a little more. Because if you talk about Roswell, it’s aliens, 100%. So in 1980 there was a book written called The Roswell Incident, this was done by Charles Berlitz and William Moore. These guys were known for writing about topics such as the Philadelphia Experiment and the Bermuda Triangle. They were trying to teleport naval ships, weird. So this book argues that an extraterrestrial craft was flying over the New Mexico desert to observe those nuclear weapons activities when a lightning strike killed the alien crew. It’s so specific. It suggests that after discovering the crash the US government engaged in the cover up.

The book featured accounts of debris described by Marcel as nothing made on this Earth. Other accounts suggested that the material he recovered had super strength not associated with the weather balloon, but the lightning affected it. The book also introduced the contention that debris recovered by Marcel at the ranch was substituted for debris from a weather device as part of the coverup. It does seem possible that you could just switch the debris. It claimed that the debris from the ranch was not permitted a close inspection by the press. The authors claimed to have interviewed 90 witnesses, but only 25 testimonies appeared in the book, with seven claiming to have seen the debris.

I want to know how they came to the conclusion that they got struck by lightning. Where did that come from, struck by lightning killing all aliens. But the thing is, this is coming from the guys that wrote the book on the Bermuda Triangle, which we already did a whole episode on. So the first claim of the alien bodies was in 1980. By the ’80s popular accounts combined the debris investigation with humanoid bodies recovered. The Roswell Incident was the first book to introduce secondhand stories of an engineer named Barney and a group of archaeology students who encountered the wreckage and the alien bodies. When did they, where, why the hell were they there? These stories conflicted with the basic story of retrieval of debris.

Okay, so here are a couple of stories. There’s something called The Majestic 12. That sounds like a Quentin Tarantino movie, it’s a bad name. In 1987 a team consisting of Friedman, Moore, and television producer Jaime Shandera released the Majestic 12 documents, purportedly a 1952 briefing by Eisenhower. These documents presented version two of the Roswell story in which the bodies were ejected from the craft before it exploded over the ranch. Alien bodies. In ’91 these were exposed as forged documents.

1989, this is the mortician’s tale of Roswell. On August 5th 1989, Stanton Friedman interviewed former mortician Glenn Dennis, who claimed to have received calls from the air base regarding body preservation and inquiries about small sealed caskets. I just don’t know why the military, they don’t have their own medical staff there, call the mortician, we need his expert opinion. He also claimed that a local nurse told him that she had witnessed an alien autopsy. A local nurse, we need Jan, get over here now, get to the airfield, we’ll get you full clearance. To this day Glenn Dennis is a prominent figure in the Roswell incident for conspiracy theorists. This guy got super famous for clearly a lie.

1995, this is the autopsy film. In 1995 film footage purporting to show an alien autopsy, claimed to have been taken by a US military official shortly after Roswell, was released by Ray Santilli. The footage caused international sensation, actually featured in an X-Files episode in 1996. I think I’ve seen it, it’s like three megapixels, it’s so blurry. X-Files was the bomb, by the way. We started rewatching it. I’ve got to say Scully is hot, not going to lie. Although at the beginning she’s like 23 and she’s a FBI detective. How the hell did you get to that at 23, you just graduated, I was working at Jamba Juice.

Okay, so in 1997 Lieutenant Colonel Philip Corso wrote an autobiography. In it he claimed that he was shown a non-human body being transported through Fort Riley, Kansas in 1947. Corso also claimed he helped oversee a project to reverse engineer recovered crash debris. His story was met with skepticism and inconsistencies. I would love to be a nobody like this guy and just have an autobiography. I could believe that working on reverse engineering some stuff they found. I always thought it was interesting in the episode we did, the DB Cooper one, we talked about where everybody’s on their deathbed just claiming stuff. Why did you wait till you die. Everybody wants to be something at the end because they’ve got nothing to lose.

I was abducted by aliens and got probed, what is that going to do. There’s people who admit to horrible things, murders. There’s a crazy statistic that I saw where I think there’s been 10 people on their deathbed who have confessed to being the Zodiac Killer. And you’re like, you butcher, you stabbed, why is this. Some people are just desperate for, maybe it’s some sort of life validation. I changed people’s lives, I did something, even if it was bad, I made some sort of impact on the world, save their name or something.

So in 2005 Nicholas Redfern authored Body Snatchers in the Desert, suggesting that the Roswell crash may have been the result of a top secret high altitude balloon test involving deformed Japanese prisoners that were acquired in World War II. Bring the bodies, take them up in the balloons, and just bring them over to the base. That actually is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard, the worst possible theory. So in 2007 Donald Schmidt and Tom Carey published Witness to Roswell, which featured a document said to be a sworn affidavit by Walter Haut, and the document claimed that in 1947 it had been discussed by high-ranking staff that Haut saw bodies. Affidavit just means, I swear I swear, I’ll tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

So in 2020 an Air Force historian revealed a recently declassified report that was from 1951, an incident in which two Roswell personnel were wearing poorly fitting radioactive suits including oxygen masks while retrieving a weather balloon after an atomic test. On one occasion they encountered a lone woman in the desert who fainted when she saw them, and to someone unaccustomed to modern gear these personnel could have appeared alien. So this story is basically saying that in 1951 there were Roswell personnel wearing full suits, walking around, and they saw a woman, she fainted, and she’s like, they’re aliens, but in reality it’s dudes, straight bros.

So then there’s Project Blue Book. The quick synopsis is it was the code name for a systematic study of unidentified flying objects by the US Air Force, from March of 1952, and it was terminated in December of 1969. The whole goal of this was to evaluate the UFO reports so they could determine if there was any threat to national security. They were getting hundreds and hundreds of incidents and reports, so it was the project to investigate all the thousand UFO reports. Can you imagine fielding those calls. I seen one, I seen one again, and like okay, where are you.

So in December of 69 the secretary of the Air Force announced the termination of Project Blue Book. Just in the ’40s to 60s there was a total of 12,618 sightings reported to Project Blue Book, of those, 701 remained unidentified. But could this be someone in their backyard, like, I saw it, and they’re like, okay, I don’t know what we can do for you. The decision to discontinue UFO investigations was based on an evaluation by the University of Colorado entitled Scientific Study of Unidentified Flying Objects, based on all the reports from the 50s and 60s.

As a result, the conclusions are as follows. One, no UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of a threat to our national security. Not necessarily a threat, but doesn’t mean that it don’t exist. Number two, there has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as unidentified represented technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge. That’s already been debunked by the federal government. Number three, there has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified are extraterrestrial vehicles. Project Blue Book, we don’t know what they are, and then they closed it down.

There are funny stories. I think this was on Joe Rogan when he was talking to Fravor, they’d be flying over San Diego and they’d see people with campfires on the beach and they’d turn their lights off and dim down and slam the afterburners up, and the people freaking out are like, aliens. So they would troll people. So I can see stuff like that does happen for sure. All right, that’s Roswell. That’s the formation of the beginning of the UFOs and that sort of thing. So does it feel different when you’re there, do you feel the alien energy? No, there’s nothing, it’s a desert, it’s what you would see in cowboy movies.

My dad grew up there. My dad grew up in northern New Mexico, right outside of Albuquerque. I think your dad’s part of the conspiracy. So what do you think, let’s talk about Roswell specifically, this incident, this thing specifically. I don’t think it was a flying saucer, I don’t think it’s an alien. You think it was just a balloon? I don’t think it was a UFO, I think it was something else, but they didn’t want to tell us what it was. I don’t think it was the balloons with the microphones on it, like I think that’s bullshit. I think maybe they were developing some other type of technology that they didn’t want people to know about, and it probably looked weird, and the guy was like, it’s a flying saucer.

And at the time, you remember the radio show, War of the Worlds, Orson Welles, that was hot at that time, it was terrifying. So I just think that it was something else and I think it sparked a lot, but obviously I still believe that aliens have been here and I’m fully on board for that, but wait till the next episode. I just think specifically with Roswell, I think the guy thought it was an alien thing, but it was something the military was trying to do, some other stuff, and then they were like, oh well, if people think it’s aliens then they’re going to start freaking out, they’re going to start panicking, so they had to go back and forth on their story. And what’s the safest thing anyone’s ever seen, a weather balloon.

I think also there was talk about aliens in the country and things like that, so it just kind of fueled that narrative, and it’s easy to jump on that if you’re the news, that’s your job, you’re trying to get attention so you can sell ads, and it was hot back then. Or what if at this time the government’s already in cahoots with the aliens and they’re like, no, that was part of the agreement, it’s not time yet, I signed, I can’t say anything. You’re joking, right? You don’t think the aliens are in cahoots with the government right now? I don’t think that. Sean, maybe you’re the only one. I think it’s totally possible, why wouldn’t it be?

Listen, so you believe that aliens are there and they come down and they check out the planet. I do, why wouldn’t they. So this advanced civilization that can literally travel to our planet, why wouldn’t they be like, hey what’s up. But the point that they’re only in cahoots with the US, no, I’m not saying that, worldwide. I’m just saying, why wouldn’t they go to the powers that be. If I was an alien race and I came here, I wouldn’t be like, well let’s just let them see us and then vanish, I’d be like, hey, who’s in charge, I’m going to start a line of communication with you. It seems like the plausible thing to do.

All right, well I think we’re going to take that up in the next episode, we’re going to go real deep on it and beat the hell out of Sean. Technically it’s episode three, Area 51, but then we’ll do a four, and it’ll be non-scripted, it’ll just be Sean, me and Eric, we might do a little pause break for us to fight. I agree with you guys, I think Roswell, I don’t see anything, the fact that all I found was like rubber and lunch foil, come on. I’m a little bit more inclined to subscribe to the Area 51 conversation, which is interesting, that’s our next episode. I hope you did good research here, because I’m about to pick you apart.

So why do you think it kind of took off as far as the alien story? I think it was around that time when flying saucers, first off, why do they have to be saucers? There’s all kinds, disc shape and orb shape and triangle shaped, all kinds of weird shapes. I think at that time it was a frenzy, like I said, War of the Worlds, it’s very unknown, it was in the news. Flying saucers were the newest rage, and then all of a sudden there’s shiny things that fall into a ranch, and then the government sends out a story and then they change their story. When do they ever change their story, super sketch, and you’re like, there’s something there.

So maybe at that time they were like, let’s test out a method of media manipulation where we divert them. The origins of fake news. How dark would it be if that was actually operation media Mogul. I mean, aside from Watergate, when have you heard the government go, my bad, we lied. Not once, recently. Now with the Freedom of Information Act, all this stuff about the UFOs is coming out now and they’re like, yeah, they’ve been there for a while. No dude, these are people who left the government, the Pentagon. David Fravor wasn’t dishonorably discharged, he was honorably discharged.

Why would they let people who were bad people and were kicked out of these government agencies speak in front of Congress? David Fravor wasn’t kicked out. It’s not about letting them, at that point if Congress calls you, even Zuckerberg spoke in front of Congress, anybody could talk to Congress, I can go talk to Congress. But your argument was, like, there’s nobody inside saying it. He was inside while he was saying it, now he’s out and he’s saying it, yes he was. Oh my God, Eric. I expect an email with a dossier. By the time the next episode happens we will get down to the bottom of this, or a fight’s going to break out, and it might be the last episode, this is going to be a cage match.

All right, well that’s what we got for Roswell, we got more coming up next, Area 51, that’s the next episode. So that’s juicy, obviously you’re going to tune into that one. You know when we get passionate about things is when we start yelling over each other, and then you can’t hear anything, so when you stop hearing, just know that we care, that is a sign that we care. It’s actually a skill to let him finish speaking, do you know how hard it is, especially when Eric’s just making a shitty point. All right guys, well, have a good one, thanks for tuning in.