Hey guys, welcome back to the Conspiracy Podcast. What’s up my people? What’s popping? We’re back. If you don’t know who we are, my name my name is Eric by this point. I’m Sean. What’s up? And this is Jorge. And we are on part three of the Lincoln conspiracy. Yes. Which I’ve really enjoyed. I’ve really enjoyed learning more about this. Actually learned some [bleep] Yeah. A little bit of Americana that I did not know. I love these because now you can talk to people legitimately about all these stories. And I can school them. I can just like make them feel dumb. Yeah. You don’t know a [bleep] about Lincoln, idiot.

They be like, “Well, yeah, like Spangler like [bleep] was like held the door open.” and you’re like, “No, Peanuts did.” Peanuts was in on the conspiracy. Uh anyway, so uh yeah, so this in part one, we went over like like the buildup towards it and also the the killing of Lincoln and everything that led up to it and their secret meetings and a backstory into John his family and his his stardom that, you know, is widely unknown. Yeah. Yeah. How famous he was or wasn’t, you know, we got a couple people, we put a video or Instagram reel or something like that and a couple people were like, “This isn’t real.” And I was like, “Okay, we’re just comparing them.” It was a chat GPT comparison, you know?

So, it was we’re not saying we’re not saying that John Loose is alive and he’s Adam Driver. Yeah. Or Adam Driver was part of the conspiracy. Is that what they were that’s what they were commenting? I don’t know. Or at least they don’t think I don’t know. On that note, it’s funny how we still get like hate comments on the flat earth [bleep] conspiracy. So, the best the Oh, we got a bad review. Actually, the best part about that is it’s all it is is, “Oh, you guys missed so many things. There’s so much information you miss.” I’m like, “Well, what is the information?” So much it’s flat.

It It’s They just It’s all all the argument is is that we missed out on so much information that proves it right, but no one will say what the information that proves it right is. It’s It remains a mystery. It’s kind of like they but we get because we release flat up flat earth episodes. A lot of flat earthers go there. Oh, those are Yeah. I mean, we’re it’s we’re we’re killing ourselves. I mean, we’re doing to ourselves, but there’s not a lot of topics where if you don’t agree with the conspiracy, we get a one star, right? Meaning, we did the pyramids. It’s not like we got one stars because I said my opinion.

Yeah. Nope. But on flat earth we on flat earth no on flat on flat earth it’s [bleep] on us for it’s either you’re in or you’re the devil like it’s like you’re in or you’re part of the problem. Exactly. Uh so and then in part two we went over the chase or the hunt. Uh this is him uh trying to cross the bridge. Remember the And they’re like they’re on military lockdown. Yeah. Sure buddy. Go ahead. You know what? You’re cool. Yeah. You’re cool. Go ahead. Then there’s like another guy behind him 10 minutes and he’s like they’re like [bleep] it. Yeah. So, really there was no guard there.

Might as well as well not Yeah, exactly. Uh then we went into the chase uh through the woods and and him uh going to his accompllices. Yes. Uh going the mud farm uh Dr. Mud, his leg broken, getting all, you know, patched up, the big rewards, and then we kind of move forward all the way to the Garrett farm. Yes, that was the final showdown. Yeah, exactly. The useless useless, you know. I know. It’s like literally the melodrama of this guy. So, and then he was shot dead in the same manner as as uh Lincoln or at least in the same spot. Yeah. Same spot.

Oh, that’s right. Yep. Back of the head. I love shooting through a peepphole. Yeah. Yeah. and uh and you know and that uh officer was very aggressive because they wanted to take him alive. What if what if they what if that officer was was uh silencing him? Part of the conspiracy. There you go. I you know and so episode’s over. We’ve catch you next time. The end where Sergeant uh Corbett uh his name’s Boston, remember I was like his name’s Boston Corbett. Anyways, he went I think he went against the wishes of like your team. Yeah. And then you know little peepphole shot that sort of thing.

He’s like, “Oh, he’s got a gun. Shoot him.” Some uh some people say that he was a psychopath. Who? This Corbett guy. Corbett. Yeah. And he was, you know, those guys who are like they want to get in it. Oh yeah. They’re like ready for the fight. They’re like trigger happy. They’re like, “Woo!” What? What about uh the homie that was uh tried to kill the Secretary of State? You’re just like, “I’m going to stab everyone in the house.” Everyone in the house gets stabbed. Louis Powell. Yeah, Louis Powell’s like, “I’m [bleep] stabbing everybody.” That’s a psychopath. Oh, your daughter stabbed both all three of your sons.

Stab, stab, stab. By the way, did you guys see the uh photos we put up? I did. I did. So, you’re able to see what they all look like. It was interesting. I know. It’s so cool. Yeah. Anyways, so that’s where we left off in the last episode. And now in this episode, we’re going to go over Oh, we also went over how uh each or eight people were arrested um and kind of how they were arrested. Uh and so now it’s about to be the trial of the century really living conspirators. The next big trial was what? Um OJ. It was OJ then. Yeah, true.

Uh so there you go. So that’s that. Um and then at the end the conspiracies. Yeah, obviously. So, put together a couple cool ones that are pretty interesting. So, it’s okay. I’ll solve it. Don’t worry about it. There you go. I already got my finger on the pulse here. Uh, so if you didn’t see that post and if you, you know, obviously go back to the other episodes and listen, but there were eight people arrested, just as a recap, Mary Surat, she had the boarding house, she stored the guns, as my wife calls her, the [bleep] Yeah. The den. The den mother. Yeah, the den mother.

So then there’s uh George Adserat and he fled Washington. He returned home and then there was a tip and they found a bunch of evidence in his uh where he was staying. Yeah. But AdSroat was the one who pussed out. Well, we I don’t want to make it sound bad, but like it’s I’m glad he did. Yeah. And uh something we didn’t go over in the last one, they found on him a map of Virginia, a knife, a weapon, a fully loaded weapon. Uh and they also found Booth’s bank book. Okay, that’s pretty damning. I mean the map I’m like well yeah it’s just like this longgo he’s the one who he’s the one who didn’t do anything.

Yes. Yep. Right. So but he’s still part of the conspiracy. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Uh then there’s Samuel Arnold. And Samuel Arnold was uh part of the kidnapping. The reason they caught Sam Arnold was because in Booth’s hotel room they found a letter from Sam. It’s like you see what I mean? There’s actual evidence. The most damning evidence is like, “All right, homie. You’re going to meet me at the meet me at the square with the horses.” Then there’s Michael. He voluntarily surrendered. Oh, he was the guy who narked. Then there’s Spangler. Now, remember Spangler was the guy with a horse. Oh, yes. He andor handing it off to Peanuts.

Yep. Yep. Okay. What? Really? He’s a getaway driver. That’s right. Yeah. But um this again is confusing and we’re going to go through it in the trial, but there are there are over 300 witnesses interviewed in the trial of which a couple witnesses said he said some things that then oh man made things worse and it made you question the the story because you’re like well the thing is about like now it’s like what’s the worst thing ever other than like present time witnesses is 1800’s witnesses. They can’t eat those [bleep] You can’t try those things. Like I mean I’m pretty sure uh this is the same time period or at least nearby as Jack the Ripper.

Oh my god. So it’s the similar Yeah. similar testimony. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh then there was Dr. Mud. Yeah. Um he they fixed the fixed the leg. Yeah. Boarded them. So he his quote unquote evidence was that everybody knew or there was witnesses saying that that he had met Booth earlier and so he lied to investigators saying he didn’t know who he was. Then during the hunt he was he like misdirected investigators to go elsewhere like oh no he went to Canada definitely went to Canada 100% I saw but then it’s like he probably they probably found like framed like play bills signed by him like oh oh I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Uh, okay. And then there’s Lewis Powell, obviously. Oh, yeah. Remember he’s a slasher. Yeah. But he v he he Lewis Powell vanished that night, but then he got caught at Mary Sat’s while Mary Serat was getting arrested. He waltes in. And then I was like, “Oh shit.” And then he gets arrested. Hey, you got some gutters you need cleaning. Idiot. And then the last one was John Surat Jr. Okay. And this is the son. Now, he actually got away and he was part of the conspiracy to kidnap, right? And so, he literally left the country. Oh. Oh, they I thought they found him in a later time.

They did. They found him in a later time in Egypt, like a couple years later. Yeah. A couple years later, he’s excavating the pyramids trying to trying to uncover the truth. Um, I mean, he did go through Canada and then that’s how he got out. Through Canada, then to Africa. I Canada, London, Egypt. Crazy. Yeah. Okay. Anyways, that’s who is all on trial. But with Booth dead and Harold captured, attention now turned to bringing the rest of the conspirators to justice. The nation, while relieved, the assassin was found, demanded accountability for all involved in the plot to essentially overthrow the US government. I mean, yeah, that’s pretty much it’s like they make movies about this nowadays.

Yeah. White House down [bleep] they’re shitty movies but still movies. So in May 1865, 3 weeks after the assassination, the US government convened an extraordinary military tribunal in Washington. Yeah. We and we had a whole military tribunal conversation. So me and Jorge both agree that based on the situation because Eric Eric had an initial issue issue with like why is it a military tribunal? Why isn’t it just like a regular like you know Yeah. trial. So like I think that a you’re in a state of war. I know the war just has ended but you’re still in like a war state and they’re literally trying to overthrow the government.

So it is like a some sort of coup d’etata. Like it seems like it’s a military affair. Yeah. Therefore military tribunal makes sense in that context. And now we just have Guantanamo. You just get ghosted. They’re like, “Oh, I don’t know. He’d vanish. I don’t know where he is.” Also also the benefits of military tribunal would be speed. Speed, right? And then um I mean you can pick your own you can pick your homies. Well no it’s it’s like three judges make the decision. It’s not it’s not like 10 randos who were like well I mean I loved his plays so is he really that bad?

True. Yeah. Um so it would have taken a year or two or I don’t know if that I don’t know the speed of the the I think I think military tribunals are much faster because it’s like a it’s like you know what hey we make a decision it’s done as opposed to like oh where’s there’s an appeal. There’s no [bleep] appeal. You don’t appeal a military tribunal. But you don’t have enough. You don’t have as much time if you were their defense lawyer. Oh, no. Right. I also think that the the rules are probably different. I don’t know exactly what the rules are, but I can imagine you get no defense lawyer.

I can imagine there’s there’s there’s a you know, it’s not like, oh, we have like, you know, six months of discovery and like this and [bleep] It’s a Yeah. The trial’s on Tuesday. We’ll see you there. Yeah. And it’s like figure also also uh death penalty. Don’t you need like guilty for firstdegree capital murder? You need unanimous. Well, you need a normal jury in a regular court. Okay. You need everybody to say guilty. No. In a regular court to be guilty, it has to be unanimous. No matter what. Not even not even just for death. If there’s one person who doesn’t believe it, it’s it’s a mistrial.

So then in a tribunal though, that’s I would assume that’s different. Well, in a tribunal since there’s only there’s like there’s three there’s three jud there’s three judges and they think they all have to be in agreement. Okay. But it’s three people as opposed to 10. Okay. So, it’s a little easier to be like it’s not majority. It still has to be I think it still has to be unanimous. Unanimous. All right. Well, uh we need our lawyer buds to like chime in on this one. I know. I guarantee we’re like you [bleep] you don’t know how military tribunals work. So, sorry. I know. I’ve never really been a part of a military tribunal or the military for that fact on either side.

Exactly. Okay. So, the decision was controversial but it was deliberate. Washington was still under martial law like Sean said and the authorities mainly Stanton, which is the Secretary of War at that time, wanted swift, decisive justice. They feared that using civil courts with juries might result in in hung juries or lengthy delays given the sensational nature of the case. Yeah, they need we need a swinger win a dub right now. Yeah, we need a head on a pike. Show everybody tonight. literally US ain’t [bleep] around. By choosing a military commission of army officers, the government ensured a controlled process. Mhm. It’s worth noting though that this was legally a contentious period.

A year later, the Supreme Court’s uh Milligan decision would rule that civilians should never be tried by military courts. Yeah. You can see how it’s like this is a year later they said never again. Well, no. You can see how it’s loaded cuz the guy who’s the secretary of war is like pushing for the military tribunal with which the military people he has complete. It’s like the secretary of def. It’s like Pete Hexth being like military tribunal. He’s like if you want to keep your [bleep] job you are literally [bleep] guilting these. But we are talking about the president. So it at a time of war and this was an act of war.

Can you imagine the podcast like if this was going on? Oh my god. like the news the news circuit would be wild like this is atrocious you know like can you believe we’re having a military time you know they probably didn’t talk like that 100 years later I don’t know why I always go back to it’s my only that’s the only thing I can do it’s a good it’s a good military tribunal um and an interesting part or note on that is that a year later when that Supreme Court decision was made Jr. was not yet caught. So, he was caught a year later and he had a civil trial.

Wouldn’t it be hilarious if he had a civil trial, he still gets the death penalty? He’s like, “Fuck yeah, death penalty.” So, okay. Again, eight defendants were arraigned. Serat Powell at Surat, David Herald, Samuel Arnold, Michael McGlaughlin, uh Edwin Spangler, Dr. Samuel Mud, and then John Surat was a fugitive. Yes. Yeah. They were charged with conspiracy to murder Lincoln and other officials and other related charges like aiding in abetting. Correct. The military commission of nine officers, which is pretty big. Yeah. Yeah. Was led by General David Hunter. It began on May 10th, 1865 in a strange little makeshift courtroom outside of the old Arsenal Penitentiary in Washington.

They were also imprisoned there. So they’re literally like this like bring them up. Yeah. During there it was seven weeks the trial. Okay. Uh 366 witnesses testified. That’s [bleep] God. Can you imagine being the the the poor stenographer for this? Oh my god. Jesus Christ. My little fingers are being broken. Witness 282. Uh the prosecution led by judge advocate General Joseph Hol presented evidence not only of the defendant’s direct actions but also strategy-wise they tried to tie a conspiracy to the Confederate leadership in Richmond. Oh, of course they are. Of course, it’s just it’s all part of like the it’s all so like if you It’s all optics.

So, they actually really tried it was like um a good example is uh do you remember in the JFK uh the the prosecutor eventually tried to charge people with a JFK conspiracy in court and he was he was the New Orleans lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, and it’s very hard to prove it and he didn’t I don’t think he won that but you know that’s it’s really difficult. Well, like I had mentioned in the previous episode as well, it’s like I do feel like that he was uh Willix Booth was definitely like gassed up by like a general dude like dude we need you’re the hero of our people brother we need you the [bleep] greatest actor in the world like but we need you for this one.

You’re the most handsome man in America. I mean, if I wasn’t married, brother, I’d [bleep] totally bang you. I don’t know about all that. No, but I think they gassed him up like to do it because obviously they wouldn’t be want to do it. They wouldn’t want to have direct, you know, direct, you know, hand in it. But, you know, you gas up and then he and then you have plausible deniability. You’re like, “Yeah, what?” Yeah. I saw them at like a We see this all the time, right? Like just somebody behind kind of like quote unquote the curtains pushing puppet master [bleep] funding everything or whatever.

They’re always behind. You never really get to those guys. They never really come out. Yeah. Who’s behind Jeffrey Epstein? Uh we’ll get into that later. Yeah, you guys will find out later in the later in the week. I don’t know. I’m mad about that. We’ll talk about the juice. Save the juice for I know. I can see the beads on Eric’s. Okay. So, the the prosecution, that was their angle. Yeah. Was conspiracy. And they also mentioned and accused Jefferson Davis, who was the president of the Confederacy. Okay. Okay. Uh and he was on he wasn’t actually caught yet, but during it. Anyways, the timeline’s a little weird cuz there he was caught later and he was you know what I mean?

So, and just to make another point because we brought this up again because I know people are going to be like, well, why is that? You know, if you didn’t actually do the activity of doing something, how is it a crime? You know, the way the law works is if there is a conspiracy, which we’ve defined probably over 100 times now what a conspiracy is, like if you if someone’s like, “Oh, I’m going to go kill this person, but you stop them before they do it, but they’re going to do it.” There is intent to commit the crime. they wanted to do it and there’s clear evidence of planning and intent and you can be held responsible for that.

Yeah. You have to be held responsible for something you were trying to do, right? But maybe you were stopped before you executed. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not like, oh, well, he’s off. Well, he didn’t blow up the building, so you know. Exactly. Wash our hands. So, an important part to note on this is that Stanton and the prosecution believed there was a conspiracy. Oh, I bet they did 100%. They’re trying to overthrow the government. Of course they thought it was. So we already know it was a It literally was. It is a but they thought the Confederacy was was behind it. Yeah. Exactly. So um and so much as they produced a witness who said his name was Sanford Conover.

Okay. But he was like a double agent. His that’s not even his real name. His real name was Charles Dunham. Mhm. But he says that Jefferson Davis and agents in Canada masterminded the whole assassination in Canada. Yeah. Oh, they had agents in Canada. Southern agents. And you’ll find out later that there were bank Remember the bank wire? Yeah. There was wire deposit from Booth to an account in Canada. That’s true. Cuz this is all cuz Canada will accept anybody. They don’t give a [bleep] They’re like, “Whoa, come on in.” E [bleep] no. Of course. Bring the fam. You’d be surprised how close like Montreal is to New York.

No, but it’s really close. No, but the weird thing is the south is not New York. Yeah. No, I know. Well, this is Virginia, but no, it’s the closest other country. Oh, it’s extremely close, right? And you can drive into it. Even Mexico. Or you can take a little boat over. Then what? Well, is Well, Mexico’s touching the United States. No, let’s just say Virginia to Mexico is extremely far. You get below. You have to go to San Diego and then go down to Mexico. No, you go to Texas or Texas. That works, too. Texas is close. So, you got to take a boat to Hawaii, right?

Then you got to take a boat from the bottom. You go to London and then you go to Egypt. Trust us in this on a pedal boat. Uh 17 months later. Anyways, we’ll get into it a little bit more, but um they that’s that’s what the witness said. Okay. But uh that testimony turned out to be perjury. Uh his his claims fell apart. He recanted. Oh, so that’s how said he made it up. I was like, how do you cuz how do you prove burgary? Unless evidence and that undermined the whole conspiracy angle of the Confederacy cuz that was their star witness. Oh, and then it was like I was pressured into this.

I lied. Yeah. And I’m a double agent so you can’t trust me for anything. Yeah. Sick. I don’t This is not even my name. Yeah. That’s amazing. Just so you know. They [bleep] up. They [bleep] up. Yeah. Um they shouldn’t have put him as a witness. No, they were they were this is a rush job. They’re clearly like So that was that was the main um and there’s a couple other pieces of of things tying to Canada and tying you know he went up to Canada. Boos Booth did I mean the wires is pretty like Yeah. It’s like being like where are you who are you sending money to in Canada?

Yeah. Exactly. And uh there were a lot of Confederate agents who fle who fled. Oh like they knew like the war was like about to end. They’re like, “We’re fucked.” So, they were up in Montreal, you know, in Quebec. There you go. Anyways, this episode is brought to you by Polestar. There’s only one true way to experience the all-electric luxury SUV Polestar 3, and that’s to take a test drive. It can go from 0 to 60 in as little as 4.8 seconds with the dynamic handling of a sports car. But to truly understand how it commands the road, you need to be behind the wheel.

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New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. Uh, okay. So, a couple key things that came out during the trial. Yeah. Um, a guy by the name of Wikman, Lewis Wikman, he was a border at Mary Surat’s boarding house. He was a friend of John Surat. He testified in detail about their meetings. Oh, he was just like there and like you can just hear everything through that shitty old house. There’s like no insulation. So, it’s like all like Yeah. He also he also said that uh they met on the 14th of April of which Mary Sarat then it’s they had evidence that she went there the 14th of April.

Okay. Yeah. So, it’s like her trying to be like, “Oh, I’m just like running my business.” That’s [bleep] [bleep] So, so it led to circumstantial, yes, but so obvious that you knew him. They were having meetings and your son confessed to being part of and Louis Lewis [bleep] pal waltzes in while you’re being arrested. I mean, it’s And you say you are involved. And you say, “I don’t know this guy.” Exactly. I don’t know. Why is he Why is he walking in covered in blood stabbing 12 people? Um, then there’s John Lloyd. He was a tavern keeper and he said that Mary told him to have the shooting irons ready.

Remember that? Oh, I do remember that. And I was like, what the [bleep] is a shooting iron? He testified saying that. Good. Pretty hard to Yeah. Then he did testify that Booth and Herald did come that night of the assassination and picked him up. Okay. Yeah. Also, there were binoculars, other other things in it. Okay. Cool. I know. They found like they found like Hustler mags under his mattress, a couple smokes, creme. Then another piece of evidence was Samuel Arnold’s letter that was in the hotel room. Super like, “Hey buddy, we’re going to kill Lincoln. [bleep] him.” Yeah. And he has when he was he they typed up his confession.

Like he had a full confession. So that was also evidence. And it basically it just confirmed their plot. the kidnapping plot and you know it was all you know in a letter and you know we shall avenge our country and you know the south the tyranny of our forefathers we should slaves are awesome we should keep them um then they also had physical evidence so they had booth possessions his journal the weapons oh yeah that’s right they found his journal uh the map found in Atarat’s room um his bank book it all corroborated together I’m sorry I don’t think the map is really evident Like anybody’s going to hide.

It’s the 1800s. How the [bleep] are you going to get around? You need a map. Also, you got to keep in mind Yeah, I guess markings on the map. Oh, okay. If there’s like hideout, [bleep] escape route like right on the map. Sure. The route from my house to Shawn’s Sean’s dead. And then I’m caught at 7-Eleven. And I penciled the 7-Eleven route. You know, right now if I ever get killed, Eric is the number one the number one culprit. The defendants had lawyers, but their defense was hampered by the setting, meaning they argued various angles. Sarat’s lawyers contended she was an unwitting dupe, and that it was her son, not her, and she just had the boarding house.

[bleep] And so she was pleasant to all uh people incoming to your place, no matter who. Yeah. Oh yeah, pleasant by pleasant. Oh, if there’s anything else I can do for you, a little little tie massage or you know what I mean? Little happy ending for an extra for an extra pence. I don’t think it would be. But unfortunately, her son was not there to even defend her or or defend himself. She’s like or even confessed saying, “Yeah, like she had nothing to do with it. It was all me or whatever.” Wait, can you imagine like trying to push the rap onto your kid? Oh yeah.

What a different what what a different time. I can’t imagine being like it was my daughter. Yeah, she [bleep] playing this whole I know she’s four, but she planned this. Survive. Survive. Survive. Survive. At all costs. Yeah. Dr. Mud’s council argued that he was just a doctor doing what a doctor would do. Somebody happy to come in and broke doctor doing doctor things. Unaware. He says he was unaware of Lincoln’s murder at the time. So why would you put up your antennas? There’s people who are Confederate sympathizers everywhere. So I’m sorry, bro. Being a doctor. Someone comes to my house at 2 a.m. are up.

He has the best kind of defense out of all of them, I would think. You know, cuz he has the doctor oath he can, you know, hide behind. And also, like you said, nobody really knew what had happened just yet. It didn’t didn’t travel that fast yet, but he definitely knew him before. So there you go. So he got [bleep] with that. Weren’t people still like there were still like robberies like back then, right? Like oh hey come on in my house the actor of the times or maybe not like that’s my point is they knew he knew he don’t let some rando in your house and you’re like oh why don’t you come on in and like have access to my family and the boots.

Remember the boots. I know he his initials and the boots that were upstairs under the bed. I don’t you know I think Mr. about his [bleep] and I’m just saying that he had the best defense. He does have one eye fully. Not that he’s innocent. I’m just saying he did have a good defense though. Yeah. Uh so and then Spangler, his defense insisted he had no role at all. I know. He’s like, I just held a horse. What are you talking about? I just held a horse. Yeah, that’s right. Um but a w they had a witness come forward and testified that they heard Spangler say, “Make sure and tell him he went the other way.” M but what about peanuts?

That’s all I got. He’s like, “It’s peanuts.” He’s like, “I’m not paying you for this, but you’re doing it.” Like, “Shut up and just hold the horse. I’m out of here.” Powell’s lawyer, remember Powell was the stabbing. Jesus. His lawyer’s like, “Our like he’s guilty. He 100% guilt.” No, he basically admitted they admitted his actions because Oh my god. They admitted their actions. There’s no way around it. You know what? But plea deal, they pled insanity. Oh, I was just going to joke about that. That’s crazy. They tried to They tried to claim uh insanity, but no one stabbed as many people in that. I didn’t even know like that was a thing back then.

I mean, it’s not as it is now, but it’s still a thing. You probably get a lesser sentence kind of put you in a a crazy, you know, crazy bin. I don’t know. Mhm. Uh but there’s witnesses and even his own he had like this weird pride about it about his Oh, he’s like I can’t like let it go. Yeah. So what if like witnesses are like he was more like proud of what went down. Yeah. And so nothing could corre like I can imag That’s what I’m saying. I imagine witnesses him being like I am of sound mind as I stand I am not crazy.

I love this. Yeah. Get the recording tape out. whatever it’s called back then the stagraph okay at uh his attorney highlighted that he never actually attempted to do anything implying he backed out and thus should be spared from being involved with those who did kill unfortunately doesn’t it’s not that it’s not how it works that’s not very unfortunately my friend no because you have like like very customer service like I’m sorry, sir. I’ve I’ve asked my manager not return this mattress. I asked my manager and he disapproved your your notion. You’re going to prison. Is that a dig to me, Eric? That was super deep.

Jorge is super like Jorge is you guys like inside joke and you guys will only listen to the past 200. I actually forgot about it, but Jorge has had more mattresses in probably two years than I’ve had in my entire life. Yeah, he’s a mattress war. I actually I think I I admit it. I want a new mattress now. The last one I bought, when did I tell you guys? It was the purple one, right? No, dude. I just bought one like [bleep] like a couple months ago. Jesus Christ. This guy, right? Remember, Eric, month you tell me. I knew that. I feel like it’s like the same story.

And you know, on repeat buddy just kind of tells you every time. My dad tells me the same stories. I’m like, “Bro, like and I’m just like I let him have it.” I’m like, “Oh my god, it’s amazing.” Except it’s not like the same old story. It’s like again and again. I’m buying it. But you bought a new one. Yeah, I did. Is it good? Yeah, it’s pretty good. What is it? Like we want to buy I don’t know. Some like [bleep] I I need like hard [bleep] stiff like Yeah. Like [bleep] floor like give me the floor like type [bleep] I love see but my wife’s kind of like the opposite.

Really hard. That’s why I keep buying. You buy a sleep number so each side like those [bleep] are like $10,000 or some [bleep] I don’t know. They’re super expensive. 10 but they’re very expensive. [Laughter] I have a great solution. What? Just sleep on the floor. Two separate rooms. Two twins. Separate rooms. Live in different rooms. What are we talking about? I know. Let’s go back to the 1800s. Your own like I’m twin. Second best bed. Literally. Yeah. I remember that. Second best bed. Uh, okay. Anyways, digress. Yeah. I don’t even know what I was talking about. Um, we were talking about pleading insanity with like I didn’t do anything.

Yeah. He just backed out and he said he didn’t do anything. Um but again like Sean’s talking about that’s not how it works, buddy. Yeah. So it’s like Yeah. Even though like it’s like you still knew like you had you knew it was going to happen and it happened and you didn’t do anything. So therefore you’re like an accomplice. You’re an accomplice to the crime. Also, he had a big role. Well, yeah. He was supposed to he was supposed to kill [bleep] uh It wasn’t like he was supposed to he’s supposed to kill the VP. He’s supposed to kill the VP. Yeah. It wasn’t like supply the binoculars.

Yeah. No, it’s like kill the second in command. On June 30th, 1865, the tribunal delivered its verdicts. All eight were found guilty. Damn. And nobody gets off. All eight guilty. The sentences were the next day. Now, this is just to put it into comparison. It’s That’s wild. That is the next day. It’s like this afternoon, we’ll be sentenced here. For example, Diddy. Mhm. Uh it’s in October. Yeah. But like they they they found him guilty of those two crimes like June. Yeah, literally the end of June, right? Or whatever. Like the early July. It takes them literally four months to [bleep] from from Verdict to this is the next day.

Anyways, this fast, but it’s also like different different chords. Yeah, that that was like the whole Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh but I love it. I love how fast it is. I rather that Let’s go back. Yeah, I know, right? Military tribunals for everybody. Do you think today people are incorrectly found guilty more than does that make sense? No. No, no, no. I think today is more thorough. No. I Well, I think that obviously with the advent of science, DNA technology, and all this stuff, but the but on the flip side, I feel like it’s there’s there is such a wide chasm of ability with lawyers if you have enough money.

Like the ability to to I hate it. [bleep] diddy, dude. The ability to prove that plausible deniability is like insane. Like the lawyers are so [bleep] good nowadays. Like they’re crazy good. You think it was the same back? They’re like, “We literally have you on camera and it’s like if you have money like you can hire easier.” Well, not in military military court. You’re like a horse thief. It’s a lot different than you’re titan of industry just simply with cameras. Like you’re [bleep] nowadays. Yeah. I think that it was obviously a lot harder back in the day because it’s all circumstantial evidence and it’s all like hearsay.

Whereas now it’s like there’s a smartphone, there’s a camera everywhere. There’s a there’s a there’s a camera on every [bleep] stoplight. There’s there’s too much always on our phone or internet or whatever. So there’s digital footprints everywhere. Yeah. There’s cell towers are pinging like we knew you were in this area cuz you pinged off this cell tower. Like we checked your GPS records. Like it’s just like there’s so much information. Yeah. Yeah. But then again, if you’re rich, there’s always a way out. There’s always a way out. I hate it. Unless I became rich. Then I would love you like that makes sense. This is the This is the American dream.

The [bleep] I want. No, there’s no problems. Uh, okay. Four defendants. So, they were all found guilty. Even the guy who wasn’t even like there. Yeah. The dude who like didn’t do [bleep] Four defendants were found were sentenced to death. Which four? How many of these names? Uh Lewis Powell. Oh, of course. I mean, Jesus Christ, the great stabber. David Harold. Harold. He was the guide. He was with He was with Booth for And he’s the one who surrendered at the farm. At the in the barn. Yeah. Exactly. Um Ads Surat. Mhm. Okay. He’s the one who backed out. Yeah. But they were like, “Every motherfucker.” Yeah.

and Mary Sarat. Oh, well, for sure. She Yeah, but the guy that backed out, he got he gets hanged. I mean, that’s with Mary. Well, dude, Mary, I’m a little bit more on Mary’s side. Really? Getting hanged. Dude, just cuz she’s a woman doesn’t like mean you should be like all sympathetic. That is 100%. Yeah, that’s why. That is 100% why. Eric, you don’t you don’t feel bad for the dude who’s like, I can’t do this. But you feel bad for the chick for the chick like house them. He should have got life. Yeah, he should be alive. 100%. I don’t think he should have though.

I mean, that brings up like his life in an 1860s prison. Way worse. That’s a slow death. Slow, brutal death as opposed to like quick snappy. Mhm. I’d rather die. I’d rather be hanged. I’m going to be dead. I’m going to be dead soon. I’d much rather be hanged. Me, too. Uh, they were deemed the most directly culpable in the assassination plot. Agreed. Yeah, that makes total sense. Yeah. Mary for the support role. Yeah, dude. She dude, don’t don’t give me that [bleep] look. She wasn’t in a support role. Pow. Powell Atzerat Herald for their active participation in it. Right. Well, I mean like was I mean how active?

He wasn’t it wasn’t super active. But here’s here’s the real uh like you said the chasm of did no thing. Oh, he knew it was happening. He knew that they were going to kill these three people, but he also But then Lewis Powell sliced up seven people. He that [bleep] should be right. So I’m just saying like they both got the same sentencing. Do you happen to remember what that guy I don’t remember his name, but the guy that helped the u the bomber from Oklahoma City. Remember we were talking about it was his friend. It was his friend and he knew about it. He knew about it but he didn’t say [bleep] But did he think he got like 20 years?

He got some years. Yeah, he got like 20 15 or 20 years. Okay. I was just trying to compare. Yeah. Okay. So, the other four received prison terms. Okay. How long? Like, I’m gonna need years. Samuel Arnold and Michael McLaclin, they were part of the kidnapping. They didn’t actually do anything in the actual assassination. Mhm. Were sentenced to life. Really? Oh, wow. Not only life, but at the time, life at hard labor. Oh, damn. They’re on like the [bleep] road crew, dude. We don’t have that road. Oh, you know. Yes, sir. We go down. Exactly. With the pickaxes. There’s like dudes on horses with shotguns just like staring at them.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Cool. Hand Luke. Whatever. I know. Okay. Sam, Dr. Mud. Mhm. Life. Really? [bleep] him. I feel like he was [bleep] He deserves it. I agree. I agree. Uh Spangler, six years. Six or 60? Six. Six. Okay. I mean, okay, that’s fine. That’s it. Spangler was just like the horsemen. I know that there’s a couple witnesses saying go the other way. I know. And that’s also like he he was smart enough to have the little black kid like hold the horse. But he knew about it. Well, technically technically all he could all he could say he knew about it was like he needed a horse.

He needed a horse. Yeah. Yeah. So he like he has somewhat of a defense. I don’t know why he needed a horse. But again, he knew about it. So if you are accomplice on this, I’m surprised he only got six. I am very surprised. I am surprised, too. But I think it’s because he wasn’t he wasn’t involved in like the murder plotting whereas the other people were literally involved in or like directed to kill other people whereas he was like his sole job was like, “Hey man, hold this horse for me.” Yeah. And maybe they kept him on the outs that we know of like that we could [bleep] six years and he maybe he did that [bleep] to get six years and you’re like still a long time.

He’s like my boss told me to hold a horse [bleep] it’s like it’s be fired. I’m not doing this job no more [bleep] stage hand like what do you want from me? True. One extra or I’ll say it again. One extraordinary last minute drama actually unfolded regarding Mary Serat at the last minute. She’s like I’m pregnant. I thought that would have been that would have been a [bleep] woo. At the last minute, five of the nine tribunal officers signed petition recommending clemency for her being hung as her in account for her age and even being female because they didn’t like the idea of hanging a woman.

Man, see this will all they’ve never hung a woman from the government has never hung a woman at this point. saying like, “Dude, I love women, too, but man, like it’s like they always [bleep] want the equal treatment.” Five of the nine signed this petition. And they were still like, “Fuck you.” And they secretary of war is like, “Shut it to President Johnson to consider mercy by commuting her sentence not to like making her not kill to life life in prison.” He was like, “Nope.” However, however, the the signed plea never saved Mary. Um, President Johnson later claimed he never received it. Plausible deniability. Implying that it may What are you talking about?

I don’t know. Implying that the messenger may have destroyed it andor lost it andor you know what I mean? Like the chain of commands. The messenger if the messenger was like her son. Yeah. Trying to [bleep] blackball me, [bleep] Dude, Stanton was wild in this whole thing. Some say Stanton literally didn’t forward it. Just like nope. He’s like, I’m going to send it right on to the president. Don’t you worry. Yeah, trust me. I’ll get it to Secretary of War. [bleep] you. In any case, in any case, President Johnson did not intervene in the death sentences stood. Um, there you go. Yeah. You don’t want to tie your name to, you know, stepping in on that and Oh, no.

History. Oh, no. Of course not. Okay. So, it’s all got it’s all about like it’s all about the PR. Optics, baby. Yeah. Yeah. The optics. The PR. And what’s crazy too, so on July 7th, 1865, 2 months after Lincoln was killed, sentences were carried out. Oh wow. So like nowadays it’s Oh yeah. 20 years. You’re right. So you’re literally then you get your last meal like Yeah. So two months. Why Why does it take so long? [bleep] like 15 20 years appeals court. Yeah. There’s there’s a whole legal aspect. You go up the levels of court. You keep trying to like stop it from happening and eventually it’s like there’s nothing else you can do.

And then they have work, they call it work case load where you go, I have 17 cases ahead of yours and each case takes a month for me to research it. So you’re Yeah. You’re just like back of the line, buddy. Yeah. Um so July 7th, Mary Serat, Lewis Powell, David Herald, and George Adsat were hung. Were they all kind of like simultaneously or was it like one everybody was just Yeah. So So we’re going to post it. It’s pretty uh over 18 graphic, but it’s there’s photography of them being hit. Is there like a dude with like a [bleep] with like a ski mask on his like the hangman?

Oh my god. The galley or the Yeah. And they they blow the switch and the [bleep] floorboards drop out. Wow. Yeah. And you can see them hanging with hoods over their heads, etc. And you know exactly who they are and you know, all that sort of thing. Anyways. Wow. Yeah, it’s [bleep] intense. [bleep] brutal. The execution conducted in the courtyard of the prison was an actual spectacle witnessed by a crowd of soldiers and officials. I’m surprised they weren’t selling tickets like HBO [bleep] um about a thousand people with permits attended. No, there’s the permits. How much did it cost to get a permit? Uh that afternoon, the four condemned were brought out.

They spent their final hours seeking spiritual comfort. Um, yeah, of course. I mean, you’re gonna, you know, yeah, the make your peace with your god or whatever. The prisoners hands and legs were bound. White cloth hoods were placed over their heads. Uh, each had a noose fitted around their neck. And the fame, there’s a famous photograph taken just before the trap was sprung. Shows the four standing at the gallows platform nooses around their neck and the Union guards flanking them. And it was the first time a woman had been executed in US government. Wow. Jesus. Yeah, that’s pretty [bleep] intense. Um, supposed final words. On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages.

Whether it’s a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it’s all just this. So whether you’re sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends, and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. [bleep] you. Powell reportedly said, “Mrs. Serat is innocent. She doesn’t deserve to die with us.” Yeah, whatever, bro. She’s not innocent. You came to her spot after you [bleep] stabbed the [bleep] out of hell of people. Like, why you going to show up there? Uh, at Surat supposedly uh babbled a few words.

Unsure what he said. That’s what I would say. Mary Surat said asked one of the clergymen nearby to pray for her. Um, it was s God. I mean, I can I can’t imagine standing there and you’re like about to be hanged. Like, talk about like the worst [bleep] 12 seconds, 30 seconds of your life. Oh my god. And then not every time you die immediately because like the snap the snap will break. Oh my gosh, dude. He’s like spot on like reading it from reading your mind. Yeah. At uh 1:26 p.m., the executioner clapped his hands as a signal. Trap door beneath them swung open.

The four dropped and hung suspended. The fall did not break their necks cleanly. Uh the four dropped, at least one or two of them strangled for 3 to four minutes. Yeah, cuz like that’s what that’s what happens. Like if your neck doesn’t break, then you suffocate to death. Yeah. Which is like the worst. They waited 25 minutes before examining them. Yeah. of which at that point they were all dead. Yep. Well, I mean technically this is a this is a super I mean I mean I guess in some sense like you know if you’re a Red Rising reader it’s good that doesn’t break your neck cuz then Daryl of Leos wouldn’t have survived.

But that’s a very specific nerd reference. It’s my favorite book series of all time. I’m sorry. I just love I literally I’m relisting to it because it’s so good. Yeah, it’s actually the best. Do a plug. Red Red Rising by by Pierce Brown. It is sci-fi. It is sci-fi. It’s by far I haven’t seen or heard or read. I’m an avid sci-fi. I’m an avid sci-fi book listener. I listen on Audible and I’ve listened to I mean my total listen time in the past two years is literally almost two months of listening. I’m not I’m not even kidding. Like literally two months of listening. Awesome.

And by far, Red Rising is my favorite book series ever. I’m I’m anxiously waiting the last book called Red God. How many How many books? There’s six. And the seventh book, which is the final book called Red God, is not out yet. Pierce Brown is writing it now. And Pice Brown, if you want to listen to the podcast, I will [bleep] literally just sponsor us. I will, Dude, if you just say hi to me, bro, I’ll be super [bleep] pumped. So, give us a tweet. Shout out to you. I’m going to tag you on our next post. [bleep] love you. Like, you’re an amazing writer.

I wonder if we could get an affiliate like, dude, I will for his book series. Dude, I’m gonna [bleep] I’m a DM. I’m a DM piece round like as soon as we get off this. Yeah, you should. I’m going to from our podcast. Uh, so so the other convicted conspirators were sent to prison. Um, instantly. Uh, specifically the harsh prison of Fort Jefferson in Dry Tortugas, Florida. Oh god. And it’s the island fort. Oh, you imagine where is that? It’s like south. It’s like Miami or No, the other side. Okay. Yeah. But I think because I thought it was like right around here. Uh, no.

For some reason, I think it’s more towards the Keys. Keys. And I also But you have to take a boat to get to it. Can you imagine how miserable that would be? 1,000% humidity. We can’t even be outside doing a podcast. No AC, no fans. Um, Dr. mud. Samuel Arnold and Michael McLaughlin were there. In 1867, Mlaughlin died of yellow fever during an outbreak in the fort. This is like two years later, so he just died there. Um, in early 1869, as the nation’s passions cooled down, uh, President Johnson in one of his last acts in office, what do you [bleep] think? Do you know what they think?

I pardon Mary Sat. They [bleep] He pardoned mud. He’s already dead. Oh, Mud. Oh, I thought Mud thought Mud died. Oh, no. No. Uh, Mlaughlin. Okay. Sorry. Wow. He pardoned Mud who had life in prison. Get the [bleep] pardoned Arnold and Spangler. Oh my god. And they were released. No way. Come on. No way. He’s a [bleep] No, dude. Uh, Spangler. Why? This is the Why do we do the pardon thing? Why do we do the Why Why do they have that power? Boo [bleep] boom. No, but the thing about the [bleep] pardon is like so how do you have such a power that like unlimited power like even if they are 100% guilty you can get them off?

Yeah, that’s [bleep] [bleep] That’s [bleep] [bleep] No, no person should have that power. Like I know that we would That’s why you have a whole system like the whole trial court system. That’s why Yeah. [bleep] I know that this DNA was everywhere but it was a good idea. Yeah. That’s such [bleep] Anyway, so they were fully released. So the the principal drama, however, concluded on the gallows where they were they were hung, but the story doesn’t quite end there. Questions and controversies persist. The two big lingering issues are this one, and this just kept going, is was Mary Sarat truly guilty? Yes. Yeah, for sure.

Yes. Come on. Or was it a quick revenge? I mean it was I think it was both. What do you mean? Like the government like they killed our guy they killed our guy and it’s like instead of doing like uh due process they were like revenge. Yeah. I I think it’s both. Put a Yeah. Yeah. Like they want to make it known like this will happen. We’re not [bleep] around. Yeah. Uh and then was there a bigger conspiracy that never came to light? I mean, I do think like I do think there was probably some South Yeah. military influence and and like pumping up uh you know, Wills like I I do think that there was a little bit something.

We’ll get into that. We’ll get that later. Um so let’s just take up really quick, which is Mary Surat. She never wavered in claiming that she didn’t participate and she didn’t know that there was a plot to kill the president. There’s a lot of people who are guilty who like never take responsibility for it. So yeah, take it to the grave. Uh she she maintained her innocence. Uh she was of course she was convicted, but the outcome was shocking to some and fueled arguments to this day from historians. I’m sorry. Like and Yeah. Well, I’ll just go through a couple things, right? Um at trial, it was mainly circumstantial and it was witness testimony from two people, uh Lewis Wikman Weaver and John Lloyd.

So Wikman was somebody who was staying there. Lloyd was the tavern keeper um about evidence that they were both there at the trip. He swore that Mary told them to have the shooting irons ready. Uh that implied that she knew the weapons would be picked up for an urgent operation that night. Uh Lloyd confirmed Booth and Harold did retrieve the the rifles and uh binoculars. Um, her defense tried to cast doubt on their credibility of the witnesses. They suggested Wikman exaggerated or lied under pressure in order to save himself as he knew them. Mhm. Oh, so he’s like, “Oh, man. I got to like Yeah.

Get out from under this one.” Exactly. Oh, I heard you got them shooting ready. Um, some claim that Whiteman later sought the family’s forgiveness, saying he embellished his testimony. It’s also true that she wasn’t implicated in any direct act of violence. True, but it doesn’t mean like it’s it’s it’s you’re still you’re still part of conspiracy. Literally, I mean, just cuz like Well, homie wasn’t wasn’t in any direct act of violence, got life in prison. He didn’t do [bleep] He was literally just like a dude and he like who who who was supposed to kill the VP and didn’t. Yeah. like he wasn’t in any direct act of violence.

Doesn’t matter. Convicted% 100% correct. That’s right. Yeah. Correct. So it’s that’s what I’m saying. Like that’s not like a good testimony. It’s like if I facilitate if I facilitate someone bombing an embassy, but I’m like, well, I didn’t do it. No. Yeah. That doesn’t mean that like I’m innocent. Yeah. So she claimed at the end I never held a weapon. I never harmed anybody. And I never actually did anything to contribute. Too bad that doesn’t that’s not exonerate you. It’s not going to hold up in military court, babe. However, conspiracy law says and doesn’t require you acting, but it’s aiding and abetting. Exactly. That’s what I’m saying.

You are part of the the enterprise which is literally plotting to do a criminal acting. Mhm. Uh some believe the conviction was dubious uh because they say that she was tried and convicted and and hung for the crimes of her son who was not there. Yeah. I mean they you mean they say that they say that. Yeah. I Okay, I understand what they’re saying. But yeah, John the Son was clearly an active Confederate agent. Really? Yeah. Clearly spy. He was. Yeah. Interesting. Because he they have evidence of him meeting with Confederate secret service heads in Canada. Oh, okay. Well, this is news. Why didn’t you [bleep] bring this up earlier?

So, these people then say that her biggest crime was simply just not turning over her son and her quote unquote acquaintances. That’s her biggest crime. Like, she [bleep] ate it and it like everyone else, not just her son. No one. How do you even make that up? Like the gun getting the guns ready. I couldn’t even How do you even think of to make that up? Yeah. But I I didn’t real I didn’t realize that her son was a Confederate agent. That like that adds a a spicy little twist there. Yeah. So I understand like now what the argument is, but I still think she was involved for sure.

Okay. After the execution, many in the public eye or, you know, in the public sediment or whatever felt that Mary Surat had not been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and executing a woman was barbaric. There were calls in newspapers and from citizens that she had been a scapegoat. Even some who believed her guilty argued the government should have shown mercy to her. Lincoln’s own son, Robert Todd, years later commented that he regretted the execution of Mary. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. I think these people have a of a misdeed definition of what a scapegoat is. Yeah. Like she would be a scapegoat if she was the only one getting hanged.

But they hang four people and put four other like and three other people away for life and then they shot with on site. So she’s not a scapegoat. A scapegoat is where she takes the fall and the people who actually did it get off. Everyone got [bleep] Like she’s not a scape goat 100%. Uh, another argument is in her favor was that John Serat so finally in 1867 uh he was put on trial. Yeah. So they he came back they found him they found him. Yeah. Uh he was not convicted. Interesting. How do Wait, what? His lawyer managed to admit involvement in the kidnapping plot while denying Jon had any role whatsoever in the murder.

But was this a civil this was civil court. Yeah. M well I mean it was a meaning it was a normal it wasn’t a tribunal. Yeah it wasn’t a triunal trial right. Um if John Serat got off was it just to hang his mother who may have been less involved earlier. Oh so okay. So they’re saying that like he was the real one and she she was John’s scapegoat. She was a scapegoat for her son. Yeah. But also which is possible. His trial it wasn’t an acquitt. They the jury was hung. Oh. So, okay. So, it was a mistrial. So, they like And by this time, years had gone by.

So, the revenge feeling out the window down. Yeah. You know, Yeah. Exactly. Talking about what, two two years, right? Two years later. Yeah. Uh to this day, Mary Sarat’s guilt or innocence is a subject of books, debate, lectures, etc. Um making her one of the more mysteries in this whole trial. What is clear is that Mary Sharat’s execution set a precedent and has been judged by history with some harshness towards government overreach. Mhm. Okay. And in popular culture and memory, she’s sometimes seen as a possible wrongly convicted and executed individual. So I Yeah, I don’t believe with that, but I do think there maybe is there something to this this John Sarra character.

I know, right? I think there’s maybe a little bit more to this guy. Maybe he knew that if I let kind of ship die down a little bit, I can I can make a good case to get off. And I I don’t think that his mom was not guilty, but I think that maybe he had a little more involvement than we’re letting on. I agree. Agree. So, there you go. That’s kind of the story. And I know we went uh 4 hours, but um but that’s just, you know, if you were to tell the story from beginning to end. Yeah. in like a roundabout way.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now there’s more information. A lot more. This is this is not a full conceptual documentary. Exactly. Uh but we are now going to go over the conspiracies. This is which is why you’re here. I mean, let’s be honest. This is it. Purpose of your existence. So if you made it to go to the end, where’s the [bleep] conspiracies? Uh but in this we’re going to go over I think I have five of the the top top Yeah. the conspiracies of which we’ll go over some of the facts that are in it to see if it holds water. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Cool. All right. The first one is called the Stanton conspiracy theory. Was Lincoln killed from within the government. I’m already I’m already interested. Already interested. One of the most persistent and controversial conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination of Lincoln is that Secretary of War Edwin Stanton, one of Lincoln’s own cabinet members and friends, was somehow complicit or even orchestrated the murder to consolidate control over the post-war government and reconstruction of America. But like how, just real quick, how would he benefit from that? Because obviously his VP takes charge, becomes the president. They hated each other. No, but what did that make him though? Like he was he was still the secretary of war though.

No, I’m saying Stanton, it’s not like Stanton would become like number two in charge, right? Cuz you didn’t see like a clear like secession plan for him. Yeah. So that’s why I’m like trying to like add up because usually it’s like you the follow money follow power. So like if he’s like I become the president. Yeah. That would be pretty compelling. While proponents of this theory argue that Stanton had both motive and opportunity, he was known for his aggressive consolidation of power during the war, acting as a wartime like, you know, yeah, general or whatever with tight control over communications, all the military decisions, and the war department’s intelligence operations.

Some theorists claim that Stanton was alarmed by Lincoln’s lenient approach to southern rec reconstruction and feared it would jeopardize the Union’s hard one military gains in Republican control of the government. meaning so basically when we say the word reconstruction just imagine you’re going to civil war against half the country and you’re abolishing slavery which is tied deeply into our economics and our export uh how everybody makes money and all of a sudden you have hundreds of millions of previous slaves who are now no longer slaves so they need jobs, housing, food, uh everything. Yeah. It’s like it’s a whole it’s a whole like it’s a lot reconstruction.

There’s a lot of and honestly when I you know people go oh you know Jefferson and Washington and they had slaves and I think that in our founding fathers almost couldn’t even confront the magnitude of slavery what needed to happen so much that that would be left over and like okay how do you integrate these people into the current economic system? How do you provide how do you like it’s yeah it’s like yeah how do you then like work out paid labor and how do you then increase cost you think if if you know if 40% of the population is slaves okay then now we have 40% more incomes to be provided and then obviously the infrastructure you see this all the time they just want to kick the can down the road I don’t want to be I don’t want to be associated with the one that like you know brought down the economy or whatever and I’m Not saying that like just like we’re not saying that like it was cool that they had slaves.

Like this is not a justification. I’m saying this is sol like trying to get the mindset of maybe what happened at the time. Not saying that they were right. Just saying that maybe this is what their thought process is. I just want to point that out. A similar scenaring today for example is balancing the US budget. Oh my god. Even Trump I mean it’s impossible. It’s a never ending, like Jorge said, kicking the can down the road. And Trump, how many times had the government closed down and then it reopened a day later. So they they went uh remember the Trump campaign went on the idea of Doge and then they passed the $5 trillion [bleep] spending bill and like I think at a certain point Trump and his crew were like, “We can’t do it.

We’re not going to do it.” Yeah, we can’t do it. We’re just not going to do it. We’re going to focus on which which [bleep] pisses me off. Yeah. Yep. Literally pissing me the [bleep] off. Yeah. So, anyways, uh there you go. It’s a these are great points. Again, like for example, let’s say all of a sudden today or at a certain moment a 40 40-year-old black man who has three children and a wife is now free. Yes. And now he needs to be paid like he needs to be paid a wage. He needs to be have like legitimate housing, not like slave housing. So, but who but who’s responsible for that?

Well, yeah, that’s see that’s the question. Okay. Okay. So, if you were if you go the route of the government, do you like let’s say you were like the government’s responsible for it cuz we enslave them, right? Yeah. So, it’s like now the government’s like, “Okay, so then who pays for it?” Well, that’s the question. You see all these like Yeah. There’s a lot of problems. There’s a lot of problems. Yes. There’s so many problems. Uh so, the point of all this is Lincoln had a reconstruction plan and not everybody agreed on the plan with his plan. Yes. So they like free the slaves, but now the government has to print money.

Oh, so then you have to then to do it, but then everybody’s like, well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Now, you know, it’s so funny that back then they were like, whoa, we can’t print money. But now we’re like, why don’t we just print money? Like, just print more money. What’s the problem? We’re already 40 trillion in debt. Just print more money. So, according to this theory, Stanton either turned a blind eye to the Booth plot or was directly involved in it. The idea is that he allowed Booth, a known Confederate sympathizer, to move about Washington freely because, keep in mind, he he ran the intelligence agency.

That’s right. There you go. And uh at the time the communication system, which was like via uh like Tel or or not like [bleep] letter. Yeah. Yeah. That kind of thing. He was in, you know, he was like there was no he was a CI FBI. He was a CI. Yeah. Exactly. So they say that he knew what was happening. and didn’t do anything. I [bleep] love this. I’m super interested in this conspiracy. Some versions of the theory claim that the route of Lincoln’s body across the street to the Peterson house was manipulated to buy more time to allow the escape. So you remember he was shot.

Yeah. They try to bring another stairwell and he’s like so tall they’re like [bleep] So they moved him to a house called the Peterson house and that’s where he died. Some say they allowed time. Okay. Isn’t that Oh, dude. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This This could make sense. The Secret Service guy who’s supposed to be watching the door. Okay. Goes disappears. Mhm. Who might have control over that guy? Secretary of War who runs [bleep] all military [bleep] personnel. That’s true. Hey, man. Why don’t you just take a break? You’ve been working hard, brother. Why don’t you go down? Here’s here’s a drink.

Here’s a five spot. Why don’t you get some whisies? Honestly, five spot back then. Tastes like a rich like the top shelf, baby. Honestly, the guard leaving is one of the my biggest holes in the story. That’s what I’m saying. But like who who would have the authority to be like, “Hey, why don’t you just take a little break, Ski?” Yeah, cuz even if that’s a good point. Even if even if there was no conspiracy, like what the [bleep] Why do you can’t wait 2 hours of It’s a [bleep] plane. That’s your job. God. Uh, so here’s a couple other things that support this actually.

Uh, a key point raised by conspiracy theorists is the claim that Stanton may have destroyed portions of the the Booth diary. Ooh. When the diary was found on Booth’s body after he was shot at Carrot’s farm, it reportedly had 18 pages missing. Oh. Oh [bleep] at the time of founding at the time they found it or later lateral. Yeah. Some argue that these pages contained names or evidence implicating others within the government who were part of it. Oh, maybe that’s why they shot Booth and that’s why you had to [bleep] silence his ass. Oh, remember cuz I brought it up. I was like, “What? What’s the last name of the guy who shot him?” But maybe he was under orders to shoot him because Booth could have [bleep] spilled the beans.

Well, I had [bleep] help from the secretary of war. I like that. And ripped the pages out. This is getting clear. You’re clear. This is getting juicy. Uh 70 years later in 1937, Representative Lewis McFaten demanded an investigation into the missing 18 pages. The idea that Stanton removed them to protect himself or others then became popularized in in like history going forward. Media adaptions, that show we talked about, Manhunt, they even have him burning the pages. I love it. And I was like, why is he burning it? Cuz they don’t show anything else. They just say him. That’s like their their little like Easter egg they put in there.

They’re like, okay, historical rebuttals, you know, a couple things on this. Whatever historians have largely dismissed the Stanton theory as lacking ev evidence. No direct link has ever been found tying Stanton to Booth or the co-conspirators. The diary itself was in Union hands before Stanton ever saw it. So the officers recovered it at the farm and it went through a couple hands, then it went to Stanton. Okay. Okay. But still like whatever. Most reputable scholars view Stanton as traumatized, as one of his closest friends, and he would never be the mastermind behind it because he was literally his homie. Yeah. You know, you know, we always say this, but like, you know, how could the government do [bleep] up [bleep] to [bleep] us over?

Like, yeah. Like, look at whatever. And also, history’s written by the victors. Like, I don’t trust history because history seems to constantly omit very key data. Yeah. So, yeah. Shut up. Uh, you know, also being so close, I would almost like imagine if it was like your best friend and you just worked tirelessly to make America better and then he’s shot right when you have victory. I would really this having this story about you, I’d be like this is [bleep] up and I [bleep] hate everybody. You know, I don’t know. I understand. But like I while in 99.99% of the time I’m like in full agreement.

Yeah. I just don’t trust politicians. I get you. I’m sorry. I just don’t trust politicians as a as just like a standard. Yeah. It’s not even like them specifically. It’s just politicians in general. Yeah. I hear you. Especially lately. There’s too much ambition. There’s too there’s too much special interest. There’s too much like they’re they’re they’re too selfish. They don’t give a [bleep] Yeah. Like and not I’m not just saying that like all politicians are that way. I think Abraham Lincoln was a solid dude. I do think George Washington was a [bleep] solid dude. But I think Yeah. I think like in the first like 60 70 years they were solid dudes and then they all became [bleep] Yeah.

Yeah. Um and then the last part that kind of goes against this theory is he persisted. He went headtohead against Johnson on keeping the reconstruction plan there. Oh, okay. So, okay. They hated each other. Oh, so maybe like Okay. Johnson tried to remove him. Maybe he was. And I’m not even kidding. There’s a story that he locked himself, he got replaced as the secretary of war by Johnson and he locked himself in the office for days, dude. Until they impeached Johnson, dude. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. [bleep] that. This story keeps Dude, wait, wait, wait. What are we talking about? Johnson has the most to gain from this.

Why aren’t we talking about Johnson? There you go. He becomes the [bleep] president. Maybe this sounds like a Johnson plot. [bleep] that. Johnson. I think Johnson’s the one he’s the one who has the most who has the most gain. Johnson does. Secretary of War doesn’t have the most gain. He stays in the same post. He doesn’t get any more power. He clearly tried to keep the reconstruction plan going whereas [bleep] so that he locks himself in his office like I’m not going to be removed. And no, we’re we’re running like this is Lincoln’s and he was homies with Lincoln and it seems like he was like actually wanted to see his plan through whereas Johnson was like I’m doing dude also.

Oh, we like that. So, conveniently, the one who is supposed to kill Johnson. Oh, yeah. He backs out. You know what? I’m not going to care. He’s He’s totally fine. [bleep] meanwhile, the [bleep] V VP’s family gets I mean, the uh the Secretary of State’s whole [bleep] family and entourage gets stabbed. Y and the guy gets executed. Yeah, of course. You know, the ads. Oh, we’re I mean, this is a hot lead right here. This is a hot lead. So, that’s that theory. Um, and then the next theory, uh, is the Confederate underground and Canada. Okay. Yeah. Compelling conspiracy theory centers around the idea that Booth was not acting alone as a disgruntled southern sympathizer, but as an agent in a larger, wellorganized Confederate plot, one backed by an underground network operating out of both the South and Canada, which was the super north.

Yeah. Canada was was neutral at the time. Canada was not north or south. Yeah. You know, uh this theory suggests that the assassination of Lincoln was a lastditch effort by remnants of the Confederate government to continue their cause through clandestine warfare rather than out on the battlefield. Yeah. They’re like [bleep] Yeah. Historical records confirm that Booth traveled to Montreal in late 1864. The wires, the the travel. Yeah. At the time, Canada, though officially neutral, was a hotbed for exiled Confederate operatives. Yeah, they take anybody. They say they don’t give a [bleep] Yeah, there’s no border policy in this. [bleep] it. Montreal, in particular, was home to a group of Confederate agents working under Jacob Thompson, the former US Secretary of Interior, who had become a chief coordinator of the Confederate espionage.

Jesus Christ. These agents operated with impunity because they were in Canada. There’s no rules. They conducted most of the financial transactions in planning sabotage missions and trying to destabilize the Union war effort from abroad, even though it’s literally next door. He’s from next door, right? Booth’s visit to Montreal has long intrigued in historians and conspiracy theorists. He reportedly met with Confederate contacts and withdrew large sums of money while he was there. Some believe this trip was more than mere fundraising that it was the true genesis of the plot to kill Lincoln. I mean, I like that. I’m going to save my thoughts for the end.

I literally I have formulated the exact I have literally I have literally solved this. So, I don’t need to even say anything right now. I’ll wait till the end. Okay. According to this view, Booth’s plan or even direct required approval from higherups within the Confederate Intelligent Network. Okay. So, he went there to get Yeah. to get like the green light. The green light. Exactly. While no doc document explicitly orders Lincoln’s assassination, supporters of the theory point to the Confederacy’s prior engagement in other black flag operations. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Like, let’s be [bleep] honest here. They’re not going to have a document saying kill Lincoln.

I mean, like, what what kind of espionage organization is going to do this? That’s why that’s why I hate when they’re like, well, historians are like, well, there’s no evidence that says, well, no [bleep] It’s a covert operation. But there is evidence. What the [bleep] are you talking about? There is evidence that they carried out things or they were trying to carry out acts of espionage. Mhm. Well, they got caught. The guys got caught, so there’s evidence cuz they got caught. They had they had a plan to burn New York City down. Well, they got caught, so therefore there’s evidence cuz they got caught. They had planned to free Confederate prisoners.

Uh they had even a plan to spread disease-ridden clothing to the troops. So shitty. Like there’s all these But were they caught? And that’s why it’s that’s why it’s evidence because they were for of course. Yeah. It’s not like they’re going to be like, “Well, obviously we have this black hat [bleep] operations and we’re going to like write it down, just give you the evidence.” Um, the main thing that kind of supports this, aside from super circumstantial uh espionage kind of thing, the the backgrounds of several conspirators tie themselves to Canada and to Montreal, specifically John Surat Jr. Yeah. He escaped prosecution by fleeing to Canada and then to Europe.

He operated as a Confederate courier and claimed and claimed that he had ties to Canadian agents. Okay. Dr. Mud was involved in pro-confederate circles and previously sheltered Confederate operatives, including those from Canada. Wait, wait, wait. This is this this is a little datim that I need. Okay. Who who uh who pardoned Mud Johnson? This is I’m telling I’m [bleep] telling you. Damn it. I’ve literally solved this [bleep] conspiracy. Yeah. Like dude, he’s the common denominator. He’s the [bleep] He is the most gain the common denom. Okay. Oh, wait. I’ll shut up. Confederate president. Confederate president. I’m feeling I’m just going to [bleep] agree with you.

You are because you can’t deny this. It’s Confederate President Jefferson Davis himself was accused during the trial though with no evidence that he greenlight. He said in the trial they said he said do it. In the days following the assassination, newspapers and some government officials suggested that Davis and his government orchestrated the murder as a revenge for their law the defeat of the South. Okay. Secretary of War Stan publicly stated that Lincoln’s assassination was, and I quote, a vast conspiracy involving the highest officers of the late Confederate government. Said that. Well, I mean, yeah. That’s obviously what you know what is he what else is he supposed to think?

Yeah. His like [bleep] homie was [bleep] killed, right? Modern historians remain cautious about claiming a direct link between Confederate leadership and the murder. While Booth certainly interacted with southern sympathizers and may have sought support from Confederate agents, there’s no conclusive proof that Davis even knew about it in the first place. Yeah, but you know, there’s a lot of proof of [bleep] that doesn’t doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, you know. Yeah. There’s no proof that I took three shits today, but I mean, is is it real or is that I mean, you decide. Okay. And that’s that that’s that conspiracy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. The other conspiracy is foreign involvement.

Britain, the Vatican, Britain. Oh my gosh. They’re like, “We want revenge. We want it back. We want America back. These are our colonies. Civil war. They can’t deal it. They can’t, you know what I mean? They can’t survive. East India Trading Company. Uh I mean honestly 80 years earlier we were colonies. Oh yeah. We were like a long time though. It is a long time. Think about it like right now 80 years ago or 100 years ago like a long [bleep] time. You’re it would be your grandfather’s like you know what I mean? Like if you were the king and then Oh yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Three generations, 80 years. Yeah. Give or take. As with many major political assassinations, theories about Lincoln’s death extend beyond domestic affairs to implicate foreign governments, religious orders, and international alliances. While these theories are more speculative and less grounded, they’ve persisted over a century. The most notable of the claims involve the British government and the Vatican. One long-standing theory argues that it was payback from British economic and political circles. This is for the tea. This is a long game. I know. We just let that tea brew. Um, some political some say that political circles they oppose anti-slavery policies and so this was a country then saying no more slavery.

But why would they do that? What? Like oh they’re pissed because they want to end slavery. They’re not pissed because they stole the they [bleep] won the war. Don’t forget we always go follow the money, right? So Britain had ex significant financial interests tied to cotton. So that’s why they were pissed. They were pissed because it’s like [bleep] their economics up. That’s right. During the Civil War, many British elites were sympathetic to the Confederacy and hoped that they divided and split permanently. Yeah. So they would have cash flow. They’re like, “Do I need these? We need this cotton.” This theory suggests that British agents may have supported Confederate operatives or even supported it with money.

Uh, some go as far as to say that Booth’s trip to Canada in 1864 had meetings with British agents. Okay. No evidence again linking well, but this is, you know, that’s all right. Next one. The Vatican. I mean, that’s a little much, but okay. Perhaps the most controversial and off to cited. Yeah. The most fringe. Exactly. is a theory that the Jesuits and the Vatican orchestrated the Jesuits and the Vatican the roots of this theory lie in religious tensions of the 1800s particularly the rise of anti-atholicism in Protestant America at the time Catholics were often viewed with suspicion especially as waves of Irish and Italians immigrated to America.

This theory was aggressively promoted by Charles Chinquay, a former Catholic priest from a que from Quebec who broke with the church and became a Protestant firebrand. In his 1886 book, 50 years in the church of Rome, Chinquay claimed that the Jesuits were responsible for the assassination because the president had resisted their influence and refused to allow the Catholic Church to have power in America. Oh, I see. Power play. Chinq, I hope I’m saying this right because it sounds awesome to Chinq, who had been defended in court by Lincoln years earlier, painted Booth as a puppet of the Jesuit order, manipulated into carrying out this duty for Rome.

Yeah, I’m not like super on board on this one. Again, no evidence kind no actual physical evidence. Um, yeah, there’s not even any like the only person circumstantial evidence or nothing. Strange theory. It was fringe as [bleep] The only person uh who was even Catholic in the people who were arrested was Mary Sarat. Oh, she’s the bench pin. Yeah. So, I don’t know. Yeah, that one’s like me. Yeah. All right. Uh, then the there’s the conspiracy. And I really love these ones. They’re a little bit more like kind of what happened later as opposed to uh and it’s we always got to throw that one in there.

It’s that Booth survived. Yeah. Okay. You can read it, but I’m not like some claim not interested. Some some claim that John Wils Booth did not die in Virginia. According to this alternate version of the history, Booth escaped, lived under an alias for decades, and died many years later with some versions claiming he confessed on his deathbed. Of course, it’s like he he also he also is uh is [bleep] what’s his name? DB Cooper. DB Cooper. Also DV Cooper. Yeah. Uh at the center of this tale is a man named Finnis Bates and what became known as the Booth Mommy. Finnis Bates was a Memphis attorney and in 1907 he published a book titled The Escape and Suicide of John Wils Booth.

In it, Bates claimed that in 1870s while practicing law in Texas, he befriended a man who went by the name of John St. Helen. According to Bates, St. Helen fell gravely ill and believing he was on his deathbed made a shocking confession. I’m John Wils. St. Helen reportedly told Bates that he had escaped capture in 1865 and been on the run ever since, changing names and appearances to stay ahead of the law. He claimed that the man killed in the Garrett barn in Virginia was actually another man, possibly a Confederate courier or a co-conspirator. When St. Helen unexpectedly recovered, he fled town so he didn’t die.

[bleep] I’m not jealous. I’m I’m taking it back. Bates didn’t see him again until 1903 when he read about a man named David George, a house painter who committed suicide by poison. Before dying, George allegedly confessed to being Booth. Okay. So, he went under another name, confessed again when he actually was dying. I know. It’s like second time’s a charm. The story gets weirder. After David George’s booth, our body went unclaimed. An Undertaker embalmed it and put it on display and it became a carnival attraction. Oh my [bleep] god. And this was exhibited at fairs around the country and museums for decades as the actual booth body.

No way. Get the [bleep] out of here. The Bates family eventually acquired the corpse, declared it to be John Wils Booth, and used it to promote his book. Okay, so this is all a cash grab. Yeah, they even insured the body for $1,000. This is such a [bleep] cash grab. Get the [bleep] out of here. And they toured the country and displayed as the booth mummy. These people are [bleep] disgusting. Like the things people do for money. It’s disgusting. You insured a corpse for $1,000. This went on for 20, 30 years. No. Really? That just proves that it’s [bleep] 30s. In the 1930s, it was still traveling around with carnivals.

This is why carnivals aren’t good, kids. This is exactly why don’t just don’t do it. So, there’s that. We don’t even have Yeah. circuses. You see how it’s not like a conspiracy, but it’s just like a weird thing happens afterwards. Any people do the people will do even weirder things that for cash. I know. Yeah. True. Okay. 1938, Life magazine ran a feature on the Booth Mummy. The article reviewed Bates’s claims and included photographs of the corpse. So, if you pulled up the 38 Life magazine, you could see photos of the booth corpse. Oh, okay. Um and and then it found its way into a private collector.

Oh my god. A private collector. I’m going to need this corpse in my private collection. Uh by the 50s and 60s, efforts were made to authenticate the body. One group even requested to exume Booth’s brother, Edwin Booth. little DNA evidence and to perform DNA long before DNA testing was even reliable. The request was denied. In later decades, researchers pushed to exume the remains buried at the cemetery in Baltimore where Booth was supposedly interred after being shot. These requests Oh, yeah. You’re looking now. It doesn’t look anything. It just looks like a [bleep] corpse. Yeah. Uh again, the the they’ve been blocked ever since. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. That one’s a little that one’s a little too far. Eyewitnesses, including Booth’s accomplice, David Herald, confirmed that it was Booth being shot. Uh, also, Booth had a distinctive tattoo, which had his initials. Uh, they had [bleep] tattoos back then. Yeah. I mean, they’re kind of like like prison tads. I mean, basically, yeah, you take an a really hot meal plastic or really hot like blade almost and you put ink on it and I see you know what I mean. You’re not going to do art. No. Initials, Max. Yeah. Initials. Exactly. So, meaning they the witnesses say that it was his body because the tattoo, the tattoo, etc.

That would still be there like years later. Yeah. I know, right? Yeah. And then there’s a few lesser known ones, and this is where you get real wild and the same names come up. Aliens. Uh, the Knights of the Golden Circle. The [bleep] is that? Uh, reoccurring like the Freemasons back there. Secret society with the aim of expanding slavery instead of abolishing it. The Knights of the Golden Circle. Supporters of this theory claim Booth was not just a Confederate sympathizer, but a member of the underground pro-slavery order. And I think they do have ties to the KKK. Well, no [bleep] I mean, let’s be honest.

Yeah, exactly. Uh there’s Masonic Freemason theories. Okay. Well, obviously Booth’s father, Junius Brutus, was a reportedly a Freemason. Okay. Some researchers believe Booth was a Freemason as well. Uh also, he did a Latin phrase, six seer tyrannis. Yeah. Masonic like Latin or uh Masons use Latin a lot in their rituals and their you know old like it’s like it’s like the base language. Yeah. Exactly. Again farfetched theories. I mean I mean that’s so loosey loosey goosey. He said a Latin word so makes sense obviously. So there you go. Those are the those are the main conspiracies behind it. again. Uh, and we went over the biggest holes that I find personally are the guard going away and the missing booth pages.

Yeah, super sus. That extra sus. And just how many people were willing to help him? Yeah, so many. So many people were willing to help him. The Canadian ties are weird. Um, it’s hard to say though because he’s trying to get support everywhere. He’s trying to recruit everywhere. So he will go everywhere to recruit whatever it takes. Whatever it takes. Yeah. Exactly. So there you go guys. That is uh the assassination of Lincoln and Booth and the manhunt and the trial. Uh the executions. That’s right. Obviously it changed America. Oh man. Holy [bleep] Yeah. The question pists. What if Lincoln didn’t die? Yeah. M because also you know this led to America and how we didn’t properly do the end of slavery in my opinion it led to the civil rights movement of course laws and [bleep] all this other [bleep] like what did you say Jim Crow laws it’s like segregation and like all this like [bleep] and it was in the early 1900s 1800s so basically the point is is that we didn’t do the end of slavery correctly it was like a freaking [bleep] show.

Yeah. So reconstruction was a poorly executed plan. Yeah. So what if Lincoln was there? What if it was executed better? Yeah. Would have changed America. Mhm. In my opinion. But there you go. So those are the questions is a were the people tried properly and or did they get what was coming to them or was it harsh? And then B, was this all there was to the conspiracy of killing Lincoln? The people dying, you know, leg was it legit or whatever? I would say yes. You know, be because of the level of what they did, what was involved. No, not necessarily just what they did, but like who who was involved.

Like so you’re talking about the, you know, the president of the United States and and government and we’re in time of war and all that. Yeah. So although I think outside of that I think it would be a little harsh but yeah if it wasn’t that situation it would be sketch. Yes. So you’re talking about the magnitude of the crime. There you go. Yeah. Warranted the the the the response the response that they gave tribunal. Obviously if they did that for like a B&E I’d be like okay like that man’s sketch as [bleep] Yeah. Yeah. And I think for the most part they did get everybody pretty much that was involved correctly.

I mean uh yeah pretty much. Okay. I agree. I would agree with that what went down and and even the fact that they did a tribunal court and all that. I’m good with all that. You agree with that? Yeah. Okay. Tracking. I mean I I agree with that they the trials were fine. Sure. like the sentences they passed, but there was 100% other players. Yeah. And the main player is Johnson. The no surprise here. He is Dude, he got off like he didn’t get killed, right? Okay, let me just walk you. Let me just walk you through the thing. Oh, I like this. So, start from the beginning though, like just really quick like what happened.

Johnson’s like, I want to be the president. Yeah, I think that my ideas are better than Abe Lincoln’s, I think he he’s I don’t think he’s necessarily a southern agent, so to speak, but I think that he thinks he can do things better. And you’re in the VP role, which is a [bleep] figurehead. So, he didn’t agree with slavery. I don’t I don’t necessarily think he I don’t think he I don’t think it’s so black and white. No, I don’t think he I don’t think he was, oh, we need slaves. But I think he was, I think I can do a better job. And I think that Lincoln’s [bleep] this up and I’m gonna do a better job and I’m doing this for the country.

His justifier was like this is for the country. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s for me, but mostly for the country. So then I think he finds I think he uses like proxies or whatever. He wouldn’t do it directly because obviously it’s directly implicated. Yeah. But I think maybe he uses and because he has so much power, he’s able to get away with he uses proxies proxies in Canada. Look, I know this guy’s a sympathizer. Let me just [bleep] tug on those heartstrings and I’ve got money. Let me go ahead and just funnel some cash. Let me get him to do this for me. I’ll get him to do it for me.

I can never do it myself. I’ll give him the opportunity to do it. Give him the opportunity, the means. I’ll let him know, hey, we’re in we’re in the [bleep] he’s going to be in this booth. You know what? I have an inside guy. I’ll make sure I that he’s got a drunk [bleep] offduty police officer [bleep] guarding the thing and I can [bleep] threaten him with some booze. And then it just most of the time almost every time you look for who has the most to gain, who has the most what’s the opportunity? The motive, right? Yeah. The motive. The main mot who gains the absolute most.

It’s not the South. They don’t gain [bleep] They’re still [bleep] They still lose. Doesn’t matter. He becomes president. Gotcha. He then pardons Yeah. Sorry. No, go ahead. pardons [bleep] uh the the doctor, Mud, and the other guy. Yeah. I mean, yeah. That’s [bleep] sketch as [bleep] 100%. And then they had life in prison, and I think they only served like six years. Yeah. And And then John Wils gets shot on site. Okay. So he can’t have like his his like uh you know his back door agents getting discovered because that could eventually lead back to him. So he’s like booth’s got to go, you know, [bleep] take his [bleep] ass out in the [bleep] diary.

Yeah, the diary. Like who else clean it up? Who else would have access to that highle [bleep] evidence or the dude who’s now the acting president? He has all the access unlimited access. And maybe he didn’t pull it out, but maybe get a union off. You got one of your officers. I’m your commander. I’m your commander-in-chief, you [bleep] [bleep] You’re going to do exactly what I say or you’re dead. Yeah. And then he did the reconstruction the way he wanted to do it. Exactly. And Stanton was like, “Fuck you. I’m going to go headtohead.” See, that’s where that’s when I thought Yeah. Stanton was like, “No, that’s what See, at first I was like, Stanton for sure.” And then I was like, “Oh, wait.

Stanton doesn’t benefit at all.” Yeah. Stanton gets no benefit. He actually gets noob. He gets He gets [bleep] He actually gets [bleep] He actually negative benefit. Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. Yeah. I think that was uh It’s a good theory. What were you going to say? I was going to I cut you off. Oh, what was I going to say? Uh oh, just about the South thing that you were saying. Like I mean I they didn’t have anything to to to win or to gain from this or whatever, but except for just like a [bleep] you. a little bit like told you [bleep] we ain’t dead.

Yeah, exactly. Fine move. We’ll get rid of the slaves, but [bleep] off. [bleep] You still see it even to today, you know? The the Confederate and flag and the the South and like the KKK movement and whatever, all that [bleep] it’s still lived on. Like it’s like it’s like worth it to them be like, “Fuck you.” Yeah. Although, let’s just say they that he succeeded. He took out the top three. Mhm. And then if he was more organized, he got an army up. See, that’s where I don’t understand. If he really was trying to topple the government to have the South win, wouldn’t he have an army?

Ready? Well, the South already had lost. You’re saying like to come make Yeah. Okay. Like, wouldn’t No, I mean, meaning like, okay, say we lost. But you’re like, you know what? We’re not going to lose because we still have armies. No, we’re not. So, we’re going to take them out. Oh, and then re reestablish the and take over because come back. But that would mean that there would be an army waiting. No, but the thing is I think that after like the war was over, there was probably a lot of like okay confiscation of arms like a lot of this like Yeah, there’s there’s a lot of like like the main people who were your the you know the main leaders who would organize and like directives and [bleep] were taken out.

I I just think that booth booth plan is stupid. Oh, for sure. because there’s no I would have if I was going to do it I would have taken out the three and had a 5,000 Confederate soldiers waiting nearby and then go into the city and take over martial law. But see booth booth plan is stupid unless you’re Johnson. You don’t want an army taking over. You want to be the president of this [bleep] You want to [bleep] run this [bleep] [bleep] show. So you get this guy. You know, he’s a radical and you just like convince him that this is the right thing to do.

We got your back. We’re behind you. We’ll [bleep] take over afterwards. Psych. No one’s taking over [bleep] I’m just going to run the [bleep] show. You get him to do it. He’s your psy. He [bleep] of course he does it cuz he’s like, “Oh, so like righteous and [bleep] thinks he’s the shit.” Yeah. Yeah. It’s It’s a perfect crime. And I forget the officer’s name or whatever. The guy that shot um Boston. Yeah. Boston. Boston Corbett. Yeah. I mean, I think he, you know, he took him out because he was trying to silence him. You know, he was That’s what I’m saying. You know, like you can’t have him giving up the informants in the thing.

And then you pardon close the loop. Yeah. You got to close close the loop, baby. No witnesses. Nothing. No loose ends. No loose ends. There you go. Jack Ruby, you know, Jack Ruby taking his no loose ends. You can’t have them saying the wrong thing in your power, man. We’re conspiratorial. I was all like, “Oh man, this is this.” And then as soon as you were like, “Government’s involved.” And I’m like, “Hell yeah.” And I started looking at I’m like, “Oh, I could piece this. I could piece I could piece this together pretty there’s holes in the whole story.” And I mean, I don’t want to Maybe the guard at the bridge.

I was thinking that, too. But I don’t think that guy I don’t think was just lucky. No, I don’t think he was lucky. It was just careless. Like it was just like No, but lucky for Booth. Oh, yeah. Lucky for Booth. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz the thing is like, no, but maybe if we’re if we’re No, if we’re if we’re going to go on this whole, you know, this this angle. Yeah. Maybe it’s okay, you got to let Bof through so we could kill him after kill him later at a later time. I got you. Cuz the second guy, how the [bleep] did he get through?

How the [bleep] did that guy get through? Like he wasn’t on the guest list. True. I know. It’s like that [bleep] guy. Sorry, sir. I have one name on this list. It’s not you. Okay. Uh, I so on the trial. Um, hold your comments. I already know what Eric Eric’s [bleep] sympathizer. I think uh I think I think Serat should not have been killed. Mary. Uh, well, I know that’s said you’re sympathizer. Why? She’s a woman. I don’t think Yeah. No, I just don’t think she did enough to warrant. You have the guy who You have the guy who’s like, I can’t do this. This is a bad thing.

She should have got life. Okay. Uh, Adserat should have got life. Okay. Okay. Not not hanged. Fine. Okay. Yeah, I can. You know what? I would be fine with that. Yeah, that’s fine. Yeah. Uh, the pardons atrocious. The pardons are insane. Insanity. Ridiculous. Mud maybe. [bleep] Mud. [bleep] him. Mud maybe should have gotten off. Well, he’s seven years. [bleep] I think Mud was 100% accomplish. Yeah. All right. Uh, and then overall I like it. I I mean I like what you guys are saying. I I don’t know if I could say that Johnson was, but I 100% agree with you. Somebody was there’s more conspiracy to be honest.

Somebody was doing some [bleep] I don’t know if it was in Canada or part of our own government. But I will I will go on record saying it there’s more conspiracy here. Yeah, it’s Don’t worry about Don’t worry about it. It’s already handled. It’s our panel for you under control. Trust me. All right. Well, there you go. That’s our verdicts, guys. We would love to hear what you think. We want to hear your thoughts. Uh, who do you think was involved? If anyone else was involved, if this was like a, you know, he’s actually the master, you know, John Wils Booth is the actual mastermind and he just did this as his, you know, radical plea for, you know, southernism.

There’s no way. So, here’s what we’re going to do, too, on this one. We’re going to do a poll because we haven’t done a poll. And we’re going to go uh do you think it was Johnson? Do you think it was just the booth eight or do you think it was uh the the the the was uh uh the guy who was the secretary of war? Stanton. Yeah, Stanton. You think it was Stanton and or South? Yeah, exactly. So, there’ll be like four options. I like it. I like it. So, get in there, vote. It’ll be Spotify uh poll on that. Um, otherwise there you go guys.

Hope you enjoyed the series on Lincoln. Yeah. Make sure you like, follow, comment, post, like Facebook, Instagram, everything. Share the show. Yeah. Join the Patreon. Join the movement. Get in the Discord. Get involved. We have a [bleep] book club in there. Come on. The biggest help you guys can do is uh a review actually. Yeah, that’s right. Specifically, I like I’m pushing the Apple. Get in there. Do the Apple. We’ve gotten a lot of great new reviews. Yeah, they’ve been amazing. Super awesome. It’s helping our It’s helping the numbers in Apple. So, we really appreciate that. Yeah. It’s helping the flat earth ones that we the one stars that we get.

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So, you know. Yeah. And we’re also going to do a lot more merch. Swear. Promises. Yeah. We will. And uh and yeah, there you go, you know. So, as always, dude, we love you guys. Thank you so much for the support. I mean, thanks for listening. Even just listening, if you’re just a lurker and like you don’t follow us on anything, you just listen. That’s good enough for me. There’s like actually good enough for me. There’s like 40,000 lurkers. Oh, 100%. My parents are lurkers. They don’t [bleep] [bleep] do anything. They only listen. I’m like, that’s fine. I’ll take it. So, we’ll catch you guys next week on the Conspiracy Podcast.

Night night.