Hey guys, welcome back to the Conspiracy Podcast. Hey, who was that? Yeah, that was bizarre. My name is Eric. You’re weird. I’m Sean Jorge. Hope you guys are doing well today. Yeah, Tuesday. [laughter] Get it popping. Yeah, we’re balling back and forth, too. Especially for you guys that are like getting it like right out at 6:30 in the morning. Yeah. You’re like, you know, and for us it’s like night. For you it’s like the day. [bleep] yeah, baby. Uh, so this is part two. If you have not listened to part one of the woman, uh, go back listen to part one. It’s pretty intriguing.

It’s It’s a pretty pretty wild true crimey. I think it’s a it’s it’s far more complex than I thought it would be. I was expecting like murder. They’re like, “Well, we can’t find the knife.” You know, like that kind of thing. It goes deep. Yeah, it goes deep. Yeah, it goes deep. But before we do, uh we wanted to acknowledge our recent Patreon subscribers that have been uh supporting the show. So Sean, so we’ve got Amy T with a Conspirators membership. Amy, thank you so much. I think you’re one of our newest ones and I think you’re in the Discord, too. And I said what’s up to you.

So, thank you and I love you. Thank you for joining the Discord immediately. That’s perfect. Thank you for smashing that subscribe button. Smash. If you [bleep] say that again, I’m going to lose. I’m literally going to gouge my eyes out. We need a little like sound effect. Cringe. Yeah. A cringe sound effect. What’s the cringe sound? [laughter] [bleep] do that. [bleep] hell. Yeah. Smash, smash, smash. Oh, I hate that. All right, then we got we have Florence K with a yearly founding crew membership. Florence, thank you for being a part of the club. We love you and you’re trapped with us for the next year, so listen up.

I love this. You’re trapped. Oh, then we got Joey. It’s It’s uh It’s Joe. It’s Joe. Is it It’s B88 TZ. So it’s Bates. Beatates or Bates. Oh, it’s Bates. So it’s like Bates. I’m going to assume it’s Oh, okay. Joe Bates. I don’t know if that’s your real last name, but I’m going to take a gamble. Another yearly founding crew. Love you. Good to see you. And we’ll be talking to you for another 365. [laughter] We got Anthony K with our founding crew from the the over the pond [bleep] mind the gap. Anthony Kerry now, mate. Then we’ve got Cameron R with another founding crew membership.

And last but certainly not least, we got Monica W with another founding crew membership. Guys, join the Discord. Get in there. Like, if you’re in the Patreon, you should be in the Discord. We have a phenomenal community in there. Like it’s a self-sustaining organism. Like, and just I’m gonna make an announcement real quick. So, uh just so you guys know, the founding crew will be ending. Yes. So, uh because it is America’s 250th anniversary, it will end at 250. So, there will it’ll be no more. that you could pass this down to your children’s, [laughter] you know, this is an inheritance. Yeah. It’s like a like, like Eric was just talking about, it’s like the Vanderbilt estate.

Yes. [laughter] Like you bought it for cheap. It’s worth a trillion dollars. Yeah. That’s right. So, uh, pretty soon there will only be 250 slots available for the founding crew. I think we’re at about 140, something like that. Something like that. So, yeah. So, they’re going fast. So, get in there. It will uh the price will go up, you know, inflation and [bleep] you know what I mean? I mean, the founding crew is $2. It’s It’s like insane. You can find that in your couch right now as we speak. That’s right. So, if you wanted to support the show, go to patreon.com/theconspiracyodcast or you can find it on our website at db dib.

Yes, the dot. [laughter] Don’t forget the dot. The conspiracy podcast. http colon slash. So, here we go into part two of the is woman. If you didn’t listen to part one, go back. Uh we went over the actual story. Uh what happened to the woman? She was found. Some initial theories. Some initial theories at the end that we went over. We’ll see. This woman was found. She was burnt only on the front on the only on the front. and she had 50 pills of barbituates like like come on in her system. It was ruled as a probable suicide probable but [snorts] not plausible. But there was all sorts of things strewn about that are very strange.

There was no fire, no like bonfire or something that she like campfire that she was next to which is odd. Mhm. And she was laying on top of a ruski hat drenched in petrol. That’s right. And she it was found that she had uh about seven or eight aliases. Yes. And she was traveling around Europe. She had cash that was in her [bleep] in her in her luggage in the lining and the Deutsch marks in the the She spoke fluent German and French. So, at this juncture, we’re questioning, was she a spy? Yes. We’re not questioning. Yeah, you’re questioning. We’re not questioning. Or did she kill herself?

[bleep] no. No, I’m dog. Like, this shouldn’t even be in the like shouldn’t even be a talking point anymore. Or simply, it wasn’t a big conspiracy and she was killed by somebody. I mean, that would still be a conspiracy. It was a murder. Murder. Unless there was multiple homies. Yeah. Like there was no Maybe no like governmental Oh, spy got network. She was murdered. She was just killed. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just Yeah. Wow. Wow. We’re We’re so like detached. [laughter] Okay. So, here is where this story stops being a closed file in a Norwegian archive and becomes something else entirely. a case the whole world got invited to help investigate in something close to real time together.

NRK’s 2016 reinvestigation didn’t just produce new forensic data, it produced an audience and a massive one. And we can relate to this because it was a podcast. So a podcast came out and it became mainstream. It became [bleep] It became Yeah. It became new new eyes. Yeah. And we talked about it in the last episode. Merritt Higraph uh she was an investigative reporter and she came out along with her other host uh uh Neil McCarthy. They came out with a podcast called Death in Ice Valley. No, this is a good that’s a good name and it’s good. And so if you guys want to explore further upon this story, go listen to it.

Uh, it’s called Death in Ice Valley. Uh, it’s very dramatic. Uh, you know, there’s rain in the background. Kind of like right now. Yes. Like some eerie music like that kind of that kind of vibe. Coyotes here and there. Yeah. Some coyotes here. Okay. Um, but what they tried to make that podcast into was a a I don’t want to say a scary story, but like a little bit of a Everything was eerie. Well, I mean, true crime. Well, it’s it’s a zero jokes. Yeah. No funny nothing. No funny. Yeah. No funny. Yeah. It was just terrible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Don’t go listen.

Just stick with [laughter] us. God, I I I feel so bad for Eric’s poor family in this in this Just road trip. You put on speakers or you put it on your headphone on your earbud. Oh, full speak. Oh, yeah. Like, no talking. We have podcast. Yeah. Shut up, kids. No, they put their headphones on. Yeah. Whatever. Millennials. Yeah. Yeah. My teen my teenager always has that [bleep] I don’t even She don’t even know when I’m talking to her. Yeah. Actually, I came over I came over and I was like And he’s like, “Hey, what’s the podcast on tonight?” And I was like, “What do you mean the doll woman?

We just listened to it for 14 hours. Yeah. You know what we were listening? He’s like, I have no idea what you listen to. [laughter] He’s like, we listen to something. What are you? He’s like, I thought it was a World War II thing. Like you shut up. You’re like, there’s a guy, you’re old. You love the war. [snorts] So Merritt Higraphs, her reporting generated more than 150 tips from ordinary Norwegians who who’ been sitting on fragments of memory for decades. the kind of grassroots response to that in most cases simply fades once the news cycle moves on to the next story. But NRK made a bet that it didn’t have to fade this time.

They partnered with the BBC World Service, brought in British producer Neil McCarthy, and built something purpose-made to hold that momentum. A podcast that would let listeners investigate the case alongside the journalists. Death in Ice Valley launched in 2018 and it did something true crime audio simply hadn’t done before. Not at this scale. It combined on the ground reporting from IstAllin itself with interviews from surviving witnesses, forensic scientists, and the original 1970 investigators. Oh wow. Men in their 70s and 80s. some of them finally getting to talk about the case that they had gotten away from them nearly half a century earlier. It’s unfortunate that it’s like I mean that’s awesome but it’s also sucks because you’re taking decades old memory and especially when you’re in your 70s it’s like I know ah it’s [clears throat] just it’s tough how real is it or how you know I mean do you even remember what your grandkids look like brother [laughter] like come on like like let’s be real honest like dude we always go back too.

The um we did uh we did DB Cooper. Yeah. Oh my god. And we got a lot of emails on DB Cooper. Yeah. And a lot of feedback on it. And uh one of the biggest things that I realized during DB Cooper was that there were I think the number was about 40. There were 40 deathbed confessions. It’s so ridiculous. They were Do you remember that? Yes. You know. Yeah. I think it was a horror one. What if one of them were actually DB Cooper though? I know. And he’s like, “What the fuck?” Yeah, trust [laughter] me. But the point is was that is that how h how much do you trust a witness?

I mean, it’s it’s they even say it’s like decades later, but it’s not even decades later. It’s like even like in present time like witness testimonial is is realistically the the least accurate. be especially in today’s day and age, you have there’s so much more like infinitely like more like a solid evidence like you have text messages, you have video evidence, you have like location evidence like based on like your GPS. It’s like there’s there’s so much more like Yeah. everywhere. Yeah. It’s just it’s more solid than like unfortunately witness testimony is the least reliable. I know because it’s like especially in like a traumatic scenario.

Yeah. Or like something’s happening like you I’ve been in traumatic scenarios like Yeah. It’s really easy to like dub other stuff in like you know, oh I think he look like this or this and then they didn’t add time. Yeah, it’s like [bleep] or almost like you want to you want to be part of it or you want that weird interaction that you had to be like relevant. Yeah. It’s also like I tell like my homies like old like my old like war stories when I was like partying and doing stuff. I’m like how realist? And then sometimes I’m like did I am I making this up?

Like I I think I’m pretty sure this is exactly what happened but like I could be off. Am I making it so I look cooler? [laughter] Like actually the great point is is that sometimes legends people go I don’t even remember. Oh for sure. You know even celebs and all that sort of thing. Anyways, um so un running underneath all of it in regards to the podcast and week after week was a live forensic thread, DNA results, isotope maps, dental findings, and it revealed piece by piece, episode by episode, instead of dumping on listeners all at once. The second episode alone took listeners through the contents of the two suitcases, tracking eyewitnesses who remembered a mysterious stranger passing through their city.

Later episodes carried titles like turning detective and a fraudster and a spy. Titles that tell you exactly how seriously they took the show in its own uncertainty and refusing to pretend it had answers it didn’t have. All right. Alongside the show itself, the production ran a dedicated Facebook group launched the same year as the podcast where amateur investigators from around the world picked apart every clue in real time and the and it and it fed the leads directly to the hosts of the show. And by June of 2021, the Facebook group had turned into 34,000 members worldwide. Holy [bleep] that’s impressive. And it was a standing a self-organizing community of strangers who had never even set foot in pouring over 60-year-old hotel registration cards and decades old composite sketches, cross referencing them from old photos, family records, anything that might connect and and shed some light on this story.

[snorts] members regularly posted photographs of women who resembled the police sketches of the IstAll women. Member um they dug up historical records from the 60s and the 70s that might tie back to the case. And some of what they found actually mattered. One listener submission included a photograph of a man believed to potentially be a grandfather of the Istall woman, [clears throat] a lead the production team took seriously enough to run down. Another listener identified a 1960s Norwegianmade bag matching one link to the case, helping investigators trace its possible origin. None of it though in the end produced a confirmed identification. Of course not. [clears throat] But all of it demonstrated something genuinely new.

a cold case being worked in public by tens of thousands of people who had no professional stake in it at all purely because of the care of the individual and the story and the way it was being told had pulled them in. The show didn’t just tell listeners a story. It handed them a magnifying glass and said quite literally in every episode and I listened to it was [snorts] help us. Yeah. like we want to find out like help us send whatever you can, you know, send info and we will track it down and we will investigate it. And of course, everybody wants to like be part of that though.

So there like back to how credible Yeah. This really be. Death in Ice Valley became the BBC’s most successful podcast only launch. Oh, the BBC. Yeah. They got financial backing, not like us. In 2019, it won podcast of the year at the Drums Online Media Awards. God damn it. And then it paid off in a way podcasts almost never actually do do. In June of 2019, the BBC confirmed publicly that tips generated directly by the show’s own audience had produced genuine new leads for the ongoing investigation. Yeah, whatever. We’re going to solve this [bleep] tonight. We’re the only genuine leads. [laughter] So the point being is and some estimates say that they had 20 million listens over 12 episodes.

That’s a lot of listens and this is 2018. So this is the beginning of podcasting. That’s true. Yeah. Right. Not like right now. Do you remember serial? Yeah. Yes. Right. They had Adnan uh one of the first This is actually what got me into podcast was the the the murder of uh I forget the girl’s name but the the guy who was charged was Adnan say yeah I think I know it was one of the first uh it was by serial anyways and so this was right at that time when it it you know it blew up and it was like wow podcasting could be cool that’s a lot of listens for back then for sure like yeah it’s not like now Although after listening to all of it, I realized that they need to beef up their advertisement.

There’s only like one ad. There’s one ad literally the whole time. Like you guys are losing out. So losing out on so much revenue, but no theory has ever been proven except for ours tonight. None of them have ever fully gone away either. And each one pulls out a different thread of the same woman. And here we go into some of the theories. Hell yeah. I’m waiting for this juice. The es espionage theory. Thank God. Finally. I’m so happy this is the first one. Like here we go. Uh it’s the one that built this case is legend. And it’s not hard to see why once you lay the pieces side by side.

Her timeline places her squarely in at the height of the Cold War in a city that was and is home to Norway’s largest naval base. Okay. See, this is what I was asking about. I was like, “What’s the what’s the common denominator here? Why she got one of these places?” Yeah. Well, I’ve never even heard of this [bleep] place. Yeah. [laughter] And at the exact moment her documented movements were logged, Norway was quietly running top secret trials of its brand new Penguin anti-hship missile system in the immediate area. Dude, see on all the like what why is this a mystery anymore? Like this is this is pretty cut and dry.

Declassified Norwegian military records show her movements lining up with those tests. That’s genuinely difficult to write off as a pure coincidence. Yeah, precision, Eric. Precise. A fisherman independently placed her near a second penguin testing site down in Stavenger. I I’m sorry, but like this rando fisherman, there was a woman that I saw at shore. Pretty sure it was her. [laughter] And if you could do me a favor and you could pull up what is the Penguin Program of Norway. All right. So the Penguin missile system is a Norwegian passive infraredg guided anti-ship cruise missile program. It was developed by the the Kongsburg Defense and Aerospace um and the Norwegian Defense Research Establishment.

So in entered service in the 1970s, it was the first western anti-ship missile to utilize an infrared seeker instead of a traditional active radar technology. And the heatseeking was designed. The heat-seeking design allowed the missile to guide passively reducing warning time for the target and making it immune to radar jamming and electronic counter measures. So it was originally tailored for the Norway’s deep narrow fords fjords. They say that uh so where traditional radar suffers because a signal bounces off the rock walls and it makes it very difficult. Uh so the Penguin’s navigation system utilizes the inertial navigation unit and a radar altimeter. Uh the profile enables sea skimming flight terrain navigation and terminal phase evasive maneuver.

So it can actually [bleep] like it can like give it a little like a little weaver little weaveroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Yeah. So it was like the hotness little bob and weave and you it’s a heat missile. Yeah. So, it’s a missile instead of using just traditional like radar only, it was using it was using infrared. Yeah. So, instead of navigating itself by radar and it’s going through these fjords and there’s like obviously lots of mountains and [bleep] like where radar can get [bleep] up and like also you can jam radar with like this was only it was using infrared. It was only using radar for like an altimeter purposes to know how far it would go.

And so like you know they were also said that it had like a sea skimming thing. So like this missile, you can shoot it at another ship and it can be like, you know, 6 feet above the water like going and it’s like very difficult to shoot down like especially like you think of like a battleship and like the cannons don’t point downwards. You know, the ship is, you know, the the the cannons or whatever like anti-aircraft weaponry you have is, you know, 25 30 feet above sea level. Okay. Like it’s it’s very difficult for them to to shoot downwards to try to hit it.

So if a thing’s going like up right above the water, you’re [bleep] and it’s just going to hit the ship. I see. So submarines. [laughter] Oh my god. Like a torpedo. So it’s like Ubot. So it’s like a boat. I’m just kidding. I’m just kidding. I’m just joking. [laughter] A fisherman independently placed her near a second penguin testing site in Stavenger. Okay. The very same city where a shoe salesman remembered her insisting on buying those particular those rain boots. Yeah. And perhaps the single most damning detail in the entire case. While ordinary civilian police were publicly closing her file as a probable suicide, Norway’s secret police were at the very same time quietly opening a separate file.

Oh yeah, they were. [clears throat] And you know what’s crazy that I always [bleep] aliases? I I always thought it found it so hilarious about Norway’s police because they literally everybody knows and it’s called Norway’s secret police. So it’s not secret. Yes. Like [laughter] can we come up with a cooler name? I’m part of the Norway secret police. What do you do? It’s just it’s a secret. I can’t. Come on. Like you know it’s just you know. So at the very same time they were opening an entirely separate file of their own. Nobody outside that agency knew it at the time. It only surfaced decades later, buried in records nobody thought to connect to the public case.

And it strongly suggests that even as the official public story became quote unremarkable woman tragic personal tragedy end quote the people whose actual job it was to know better suspected something considerably darker and more organized as happening in that valley. Every detail of her documented life reads more like operational training rather than ordinary paranoia. I mean obviously like no one has aliases. If you have an alias like something’s going on. The rotating false identities. She had the encrypted notebook. Yeah. She also had like a consistent backstories where it was like the date of birth was similar but the other parts of the you know what I mean?

Like so say you say you uh sign registration cards for seven aliases and they’re all born in 1934. They’re a different month and day. Yes. Exactly. So there’s some there’s consistencies but like just slight changes. Remember your lies. Exactly. They’re very true if they’re close enough to like the truth. Yeah. Mhm. So every detail of her documented life reads more like operational training. The wiped fingerprints, habitual rather than occasional. The constant unexplained room changes that she did at hotels. Yeah, it’s bizarre. No one does that, dude. Nobody does that. The suitcase full of wigs and nonprescription disguise glasses. Nobody does that. [laughter] Consider to the timing of her two separate 1970s trip 1970 trips a reconnaissance visit in the spring perhaps.

Uh-huh. followed by a longer return in the fall that ended in her death. A pattern that reads far more like a staged operation with a defined start and a fatal end than like a meandering of a woman without purpose. Meaning she was not just wandering around on a vacay. No. No. She’s not just like on the vibe. It’s missions. Yeah. Later DNA findings have complicated some of the wilder offshoots of this theory. Specifically, her largely European ancestry makes a once popular claim that she was an Israeli MSAD agent. Oh, there we go. It all comes back to it considerably since MSAD’s operatives in this era and role were typically drawn from within Israel’s own population.

But that finding does nothing whatsoever to rule out the fact that she could be French, German, or other European intelligence connections. The thing is, she doesn’t have to be like French to be to speak French. French or even to be, you know, the French uh intelligence or German. Yeah. She could be easily be recruited like we like like Cory was saying, like the CIA recruits everybody. Yeah. Like MSAD recruits everybody. the the KGB recruits everyone to an extent I would assume. I think the KGB are [laughter] a little more selective. Yeah. [snorts] They got have like one Russian descendant or some [bleep] You’re not in the next theory.

Nazil linked banker. Okay. Okay. That’s it’s the newest major threat in the case and arguably arguably the most explosive development in over half a century. In June of 2023, the respected Swiss paper Noy Sukur Sukar [bleep] [bleep] Jesus Christ. It’s a paper. [laughter] Trust us on this one. Let’s give a little trust. It published a major investigation citing an unnamed professional fact checker of course working in the case alleging a possible connection between the IstL woman and France Ginwad a Swiss banker infamous across decades for bankrolling unrepentant Nazi sympathizers in post-war years and later a long string string of extremist and terrorist causes stretching across Ross Europe and the Middle East.

Jin Wad was by any account one of the 20th century’s most quietly dangerous men. A financer who moved seamlessly from funding fugitive Nazi war criminals in the 50s to bankrolling militant causes decades later. All while maintaining a respectable public face as a Geneva businessman. Yeah, it sounds like the Kennedys like Um, the NZZ report claimed something even more explosive than the Ginwad colle connection on its own. The Norway’s own intelligence service had quietly interfered with a local police investigation back in this in 1977. Meaning the tidy publicly announced probable suicide verdict may never have been an honest conclusion at all. Yeah, give a couple give a guy a couple some couple croner and [clears throat] he’s like, “Hell yeah, Zeus hat, baby.” It may have been a deliberately engineered dead end constructed specifically to keep something considerably larger buried at a moment when Cold War Norway had every incentive to avoid a public scandal involving foreign intelligence operations on its own soil.

Yeah. See, I feel like that’s a that’s a piece of it. That’s not the like the full thing. I think that’s definitely a piece like they’re definitely [bleep] if like they’re in some like international [bleep] scandal and like it’s not like they’re some like badass military state. No, they’re they don’t they’re like [bleep] we can’t we can’t have this for boys. suicide it is like so this thread or this theory as of this recording remains still unexplored in English language reporting meaning has not been fully run down yet. Yeah. I mean it’s not like our it’s not like our news circuit’s the most reliable source anyway.

So that’s true. I don’t know thoughts on that one. Like I said I think it’s a it’s it’s definitely part of there. I think it’s part of I think she was a spy for sure. Okay. And I think that if they they were like, “Isn’t our best interest to like dig down this rabbit hole more?” Mhm. I don’t necessarily agree that it’s like some Nazi financeier who’s like behind it, but I think they’re like maybe they went down a little path and they’re like, “Well, this is above our pay grade, so I think we just [bleep] chocked this one up to pills.” Okay. Uh, next theory.

Prostitute. [laughter] She’s the most [bleep] legit prostitute in the history. [laughter] Sophisticated prostitution. Like legend. I speak languages. I [bleep] [laughter] I’m just really is that like a high-end like prostitute market in Borggan. [laughter] Yeah. Like get the [bleep] out of here. Okay. So this theory comes from Norwegian author Dennis Zacher Oke. He was [bleep] hookers. That’s why he made this thing. who spent years independently reconstructing independently researching her movements from his he wrote a book in trust me girl it’s just it’s just research it’s re babe babe stop asking questions I got to find I got to get the source he wrote they got to trust [laughter] me he wrote a book in 2018 and uh argues that the purposeful circling pattern of her travels always eventually returning towards some unknown home base never simply wandering ing combined with her extreme inconsistent secrecy and the fact that not one single man she was ever seen with came forward afterwards embarrassment.

But it’s like so it fits the profile of a woman working discreetly for a clientele who had every reason of their own to protect their anonymity. No, but the thing is like it’s so it’s it’s so extra just to like hide that you’re [bleep] a hooker. Like I’m you’re going to need passports. Seven of them like a minimum. And I’m going to need you to travel down randomly wigs just to circle back to me. Put the cash in the lining. They can’t know you have money. But maybe thing that makes sense is that’s why she maybe had so many different wigs. No, but why would why do you need wig?

Like we were always wondering fantasy. We were always wondering about the the where’d she get the cash? Like where’ she where’d she get all the money to all the different she has like different Yeah. Why all the different currencies? Yeah. Why’ she got like German currency? Like he’s like you got to make it look believable. Have like a bunch of different money on you. [bleep] it. [laughter] It just it’s so it’s just ridiculous. I mean patrons pay in all sorts of money. But or or if you’re some like rich Norwegian guy, you just go to like a horror house and you’re like, “My name’s Steve.” [laughter] I don’t know.

Like they don’t know you. Like they don’t know who the [bleep] you are. This is the 70s. It’s not like they go to your Facebook page and like they [bleep] find you. It just seems like way too much. Too much. It’s like she’s traveling around all of Norway consistent. It’s too sophisticated. It’s too sophisticated. So, let me just let me just throw it out. Yeah. I’m sorry. I don’t think speak multiple languages. So men who meet a woman under a false name in a hotel room. Sure. And then they read in the newspaper that that woman turned up dead in a valley outside. Sounds like a Kennedy thing.

Very very big incentive to simply just say nothing that they knew nothing. Yeah. Or it happens and they just don’t know anything and nothing. Yeah. because they’re not the killer. I mean, also this I think this ties into what was that uh oh man, what was that movie? I think it had um the chick from [bleep] Hunger Games. What’s her name? Oh, Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah, Jennifer Lawrence. Remember like it was called like Sparrow or some [bleep] Oh, yeah. She’s like a hooker spy. I never saw that. Like a Russian Yeah, she’s like a Russian Russian hooker spy. Red Sparrow. Yeah, Red Sparrow. So you get in, you’re like, “Ooh, [bleep] me.” And then they’re they’re like she spies.

So maybe maybe this is like maybe maybe it’s like three it’s like three conspiracies tied into Yeah. She’s like she’s like I’m a hooker. I’m going to need cash. [clears throat] And then he’s like oh yeah and she’s like penguin project [laughter] like you know what I’m saying? Like Red Penguin that’s actually not even wrong. Dude I know dude. I’m telling you, guys are sucking. So, it wasn’t that she was a prostitute, but she used it as a She was a pretend prostitute as a spy. I mean, that’s Trust me, dudes are I know. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, we’re dudes are super dumb. We will like We’re that easy.

Like, oh, she’s so into like remember like the We are You see the um who’s the the owner of the Raiders? The guy with the haircut, dude. Oh my god. with the wor ever lived. Yeah. And then he’s got this like 22-year-old girlfriend and she’s like, “I didn’t even know he was the owner of owner owner of the Raiders.” I’m like, “Yes, you did.” Like, “Are you crazy?” Mark Davis. Mark Davis. This He is the most repulsive human I have ever seen. Like, if anyone could be uglier, he could be fine if he just got a haircut, [laughter] right? He’s not fine. 71y old with a 22y old that haircut is he looks like a penis.

He looks like an old penis. Like a 71y old penis. Like I swear to God, we can’t keep making fun of billionaires cuz we need one billionaire to be listening to this show. Dude, he’ll probably love it. Look at Look at this guy. This he he purposely gets his haircut that way. He knows what he looks like. I think he’s doing it on purpose. This is like a bull cut mullet. I don’t think he even cares. I mean, it’s probably a rug. True. It is. Oh, guaranteed. Yeah. And she’s like, I I didn’t know. It’s so weird. He was I He’s such a great personality.

Oh, get the [bleep] out of here, bro. 22-year-old bombshell. So, Oke, the author, who proposed this this theory. Yeah. Also though leans towards a murder over suicide. So, he does believe that she was a prostitute, but she was murdered. That’s okay. Fine. Okay. Believing someone else, right? Believing someone else was almost certainly physically present when she died. Well, obviously. No, it’s it’s it’s blatantly obvious. Yeah. Cuz look, if she did it herself, it’s impossible for her to end up on like to be on her back. If you have 50 [bleep] sleeping pills in your system, I just don’t and you burn yourself. You have to burn on the front.

Pick one. Are you going to Are you going to take the 50 pills or are you going to burn yourself? Still don’t understand the burn in the front. That’s what I’m saying. Like it’s impossible for If you’re going to burn yourself, burn yourself. Yeah. No, but like I’m saying, not just the let me lay on some fire now. No, because if the only way it’s a suicide is if she takes these pills, maybe to like numb the pain or something, and she she’s just low IQ and is like, I’m going to jump on this fire face first. Yeah. And then the only way she ends up on her back is if she like just like rolls over out of like compulsion.

But then there would be a trace of a fire right next to her. It would be right next to her body. And it would be and all the things from her bag wouldn’t be just And in that scenario, it would be impossible for her to be laying on a [bleep] Ruski hat drenched in petrol. Yeah. It would be impossible. like impossible. Yeah. Okay. She did not kill herself. It’s it’s it’s the easiest. No. I mean, it doesn’t take uh It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to figure that out. Yeah. Next theory. The fraudster theory. Okay. Well, she’s obviously a fraudster. It takes the whole tangle of fake identities and carefully hidden cash and treats it exa it as exactly what it looks like on paper without reaching for espionage at all.

She’s a con artist running some extended sophisticated grift across multiple countries whose secrecy was about staying one step ahead of victims or law enforcement rather than serving any government interest. All right. So she’s she was like Frank Abnail. Uh she was doing um Yes. Yeah. Like Frank Abnail. Yeah. She was just like taking like travelers perpetual fonts from She only cash. Where’s she getting the cash? The bank. She’s cashing traveler’s checks to the Yeah, they would have No, but she keeps going back to the same place. You can’t like Wouldn’t you have records at a bank of traveler’s checks being cashed in? You have to probably There has to be.

Yeah, that’s why she stayed away from checks cuz there’s there’s the the trail. Yeah, that’s right. She specifically said Yeah, they specifically say she never used checks. Yeah. So, it’s not a Frank Abnail. Well, in the other podcast, Death in Ice Valley, it gave a full EP episode totally dedicated to the fact that maybe she was a fraudster. Hm. But again, I don’t know how you’re going to forge cashier checks because that was one of the main basis of the argument was that she was they were forging cashier checks and going to country to country to country. No, but No, but the thing is, but how do you how do you cash in a cashier’s check?

You have to go to a bank. You go to a bank and there’s a signature, right? There would have been records of her records. I mean, obviously they used they used her signature as a key piece of identifying who she was and where she had been. And then if she was cashing her cashier’s checks at the hotels, they would have obviously had records of that. Correct. So therefore, if she did have cashier checks, she’d have to do it at a bank or another establishment. I’m sure they would have found that. And the fact that she always used cash, I mean, she’s obviously got a backer.

Someone’s giving her the cash and she you don’t go back to the same place. If you’re doing this, you’re not like returning to the same place. It’s just you’re like begging to be caught. Yeah. Like, so yeah, I don’t I don’t I don’t buy the fraudster. I don’t buy the fraud fraudster. That one doesn’t make sense. Yeah. It’s also like if you’re a fraudster, I don’t think you’re dumping 50 pills into your gullet and then getting burned for being a fraudster. So, Death in Ice Valley, which is that podcast that we’re talking about, it didn’t just revive the case, it opened the door for everyone else to keep walking through it.

And for the better part of a decade now, they have. Dennis Ascu’s uh 2018 book brought his own years of independent reconstruction to Norwegian readers just as the podcast was reaching the international audience. And so those two projects fed each other. and um his on the ground interviews and archival digging became source material cited by journalists covering the podcast success. While the podcast reach sent new readers looking for his book, Discovery UK has run its own standing explainer coverage of the case, returning to update it as new forensic findings surface. So in 2023, New Zealad connection was itself in part a direct product of that ecosystem and that was the the banker.

Mhm. You know, a Swiss paper taking the case seriously enough to run an original investigation specifically because a global audience cultivated first by the podcast and then by the you know the book there was a clear appetite for answers. And then there’s the part that’s hardest to quantify, but probably matters the most. The Facebook group of Death in Ice Valley. The Facebook group. The most important piece of the puzzle. It didn’t shut down when the original episode stopped. It kept going. Run largely by the amateur community itself. still cross referencing old photos, still debating the composite sketches, still occasionally producing a lead specific enough that someone forwards it along to Norwegian Police.

I mean, this is so funny because like this this whole thing is like leads back to Eric’s [bleep] mantra of life, the ingenuity of man, [laughter] like keep, you know, the power of man to [bleep] to come together and solve a problem. Yeah. So, as of this recording, the IstAl woman has never been identified. But she has, but not like truly identified. That’s right. Not like who are who is she really? Who is she? Yeah. She remains exactly sure where she was placed in Feb of 1971 in her zinc coffin. [bleep] zinc coffin in the Mindale Cemetery. Still waiting for a family that has never once in 55 years come forward.

I’m telling you, this is like to me and maybe it’s just movies that have like made me in this way, but like I think of like [bleep] John Wick and like all this [bleep] like this seems like textbook Russian [bleep] where they’re like your family is us now. You have no family. Your name is Jessica whatever. It’s like like they make you like numb to it and they’re like you’ll just be whoever you need to be to [bleep] do it. What has changed steadily is the shape of the mystery around her rather than the mystery itself. Forensic science has narrowed her likely origins to the Nuremberg or French German border region, while her maternal genetic line points somewhere else entirely towards Southeast Europe or Southeast Southwest Asia, suggesting a background far more tangled and far more welltraveled than any single nationality on any of her eight false passports could ever.

for eight false passports. Some say some some some posts that I had read was that a theory was is that she was born in Germany. Okay. And she escaped the Nazi rule. Mhm. Okay. You touched on that a little bit. So she was a [clears throat] refugee. Refugee. Yes. Mhm. What that means though, I don’t know. She was a refugee and name only. But but let’s just say, hold on, like, back it up. Let’s just say she was born in Germany. Okay. But her facial features and everything about her kind of more denotes that she’s Jewish than German. Mhm. Okay. She’s got to squalale. I got to get out of there.

But there does lie the connection with Msad. Yeah, I was gonna say and that Msad’s like, “Okay, so like if you I like the way this girl looks.” Yes. Do you know what I’m saying? Like Like perhaps like what language does she speak again? [laughter] Perhaps there is something there with the fact that maybe like if when we’ll go over it at the end, but like what intelligence agency is she with? Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. So, if she was born, let’s just say she’s 40, 35. Let’s say she’s 35. She was born in Germany. She escaped Germany. Mhm. She joined MSAD. I mean, right. I think MSAD is the That’s the shady of the shady.

Like, they’ll [bleep] do anything. They don’t give a [bleep] Like, they’ll have They all are. Oh, I know. The CIA is [bleep] super ultra crim. The KGB is insane. I just can’t take I can’t take I can’t take the the Swedish secret police seriously. I mean the Nor the Norwegian the Norwegian secret police. If they’re going to call themselves that like come on guys, give me something better. It’s just I mean obviously no offense guys. No offense. [laughter] Much love. Much love Norway. You know we’re going to get a pop in in Norway. And and you know what’s gonna happen is like homiey’s gonna be like I am part of the Norway Swedish like secret police.

Yeah, we need an email. It’s actually more secret than you think. Yeah, it’s true. So, a handful of blogs and true crime sites floating around the internet have claimed that there was a breakthrough in identification in 2022. Those claims are not corroborated by Wikipedia, by NRK, by BBC or by the Bergen Police, but they should be treated maybe in our our little skepticism unless one of those sources confirms it directly. So, and that’s the Genoad lead meanwhile remain it remains largely unexplored to the Yeah, they haven’t they haven’t like done like a deep dive into it. Yeah. So that’s possibly the only thing that is continuing.

Yeah. Okay. So the Facebook community of the death in Ice Valley is now well past 34,000 members. Uh and it’s continuing to try to solve this mystery. We got to post our podcast. I know. Yeah. The mystery has not been solved. Most unidentified person cases once the initial burst of publicity fades simply stop generating new information. But this one, the ISTL woman, is one of the very small number of cases anywhere in the world where the opposite has happened. Interest has compounded across generations, dragging in journalists, forensic scientists, novelists, and tens of thousands of amateur investigators who weren’t even alive when she died. Every few years brings a new piece, some sort of isotope result, a DNA marker that’s new, a newspaper investigation out of Zurich, and each one narrows the question without ever quite answering.

What happened to the Istall woman? I know [sighs] this case has genuinely everything. It’s from cold war espionage, an unsolved case, a staged death, cutting edge prostitutes, prostitution, a cutting edge forensic science slowly chipping away at decades old walls of silence, and a government quietly investigating in secret while publicly closing the book. That gap between what civilian police said in public and what Norway’s secret police were doing behind the scenes [laughter] at the exact same time is a genuine gift of a beat and deserves a real weight in this telling, not just a passing mention. But here we go. So here are the theories. It’s a spy, a sex worker, a fraudster, a Nazi financeier connection.

Give this to a natural. Which do you believe? And because the case is still active, a live 2023 lead, a forensic genealogologist still theoretically in play, a Facebook group still generating tips. There’s a natural built-in reason to revisit this one down the line. And eventually, hopefully, we’ll do an update episode the same way that we’ve already done with many episodes. They never get any of the DNA genealogy uh data back. It’s been years. Does it does it take years or I think it’s because you can only do family members and you can only do No, but at least they can know that like they were saying like you can tell what kind of even food they [bleep] ate and like I don’t know what part of Germany and all that stuff.

And they did find like they did establish that she was probably born in Germany and then at a very young age she crossed the border into France. Yeah. In andor Belgium and um lived her younger life in that time or in that location. I mean, it’s needless to say, she’s definitely like a high value target for these agencies, for someone. Yeah. Like, [clears throat] according to them, relatively good-looking, speaks multiple languages. Like, it also makes sense too that if she was a refugee, maybe she was separated from her family, so she’s alone. That’s why there’s no one calling for no one looking for her, which makes it much easier to like put her under the influence like, “Hey, we’re your family now.” Like, and and hide her identity.

So, it seems like I honestly think it’s like four of these things combined into like it’s it’s the fact that she was a refugee from Germany. Let’s say that because that that makes sense. If her family was there and she would say she was potentially a Jew, Yeah. you know, she fle she flees. She gets [bleep] scooped up by, you know, let’s say the MSAD. They’re like, “Great. You speak these languages. We want to we want to look into this this penguin missile. So, what you’re going to need to do is you’re going to need to travel there and you’re going to need to sleep with some highle dudes.

Yeah. To try to infiltrate, to try to get in, try to get into the little pillow talk. So, [clears throat] she goes, she’s traveling, she’s going to different places, she’s changing rooms, she’s looking around, she’s trying to find who’s going to be her next target. She’s like an amateur spy, but she doesn’t totally know what she’s doing. She gets, you know what I mean? Like a little bit on the on the She seems better than amateur. Dude, she seems pretty legit. Like I say, like she seems legit. No. And she’s also like what they typically do when they have someone to spy. They’re expendable. Yeah.

And I also think that it gets to the point where it would make sense if she was young when she fled cuz like you’re super moldable because what I honestly think happened was that she got discovered. Let’s say she was like she got some data. She got discovered. She [bleep] do does these pills to try to [bleep] to try to go down with the secret. Okay. And then she was honestly I think it was a type of torture. I think they [bleep] The only thing that makes sense is that she was put on the fire face down. Mhm. Probably pulled up. [bleep] tell us what you [bleep] know.

She’s [bleep] out of it. Bl. They throw on her again. Then she’s breathing that [bleep] in. She’s already got 50 pills that they don’t know that she took. She dies. They [bleep] drag her [bleep] [bleep] out. Maybe they’re going through her [bleep] They throw a bunch of stuff and they try to make it look confusing. They try to make the scene look very odd. just gonna throw [bleep] everything around. It’s super bizarro. Oh, some just petrol [bleep] hat. Like, cut the stuff. I know. Just make it look as weird as possible. You make it so confusing that like no one knows what’s happening. Exactly. And then that’s what happened.

That’s what I honestly think. What? So, it was her own agency. No, I think she was found I think she found out. I think she was found out. She was caught doing what she was doing. She was either Norwegian secret secret police, like super secret police. Well, uh or like the Norwegian government or like other agency. I don’t know. I think she was found out by someone. So, I think Yeah, I think it’s going to be uh found out by Yeah. Norwegian secret police. Super secret police. But like it may Yeah. So, definitely not a suicide. Definitely uh spy like Sean% I don’t think she was doing the prostitution added that in the side [laughter] for funsies.

She was doing it for funsies. No, I think that uh you know she had been going there and getting into I don’t really I couldn’t really figure out where what agency she works for. Yeah, that’s that’s a tough one. That’s a toughy. But she definitely got found out. And then she knows that she got found out and that’s why she was kind of like moving rooms cuz she’s like expecting somebody to come get her. Yeah. You know, so she’s always trying to like evade and and whatever. Yeah. And then she got found out by by the Norwegian police and they took her out to obviously, you know, to to take take out the threat.

Now they also influenced the local police to to to shut the case down in, you know, in just a matter of weeks and say that it was um suicide, right? You know, because they opened up their own case that they they were just covering all their tracks. But so so on that note really quick, so from our VIP who uh Oh, yeah. requested Turquoise, he had questions and he wanted us to address those questions. Pull them up. Pull them up. So he said, “If both the Bergen police and Norwegian government opened investigations into this case, why did they not share intel?” Because just like the CIA doesn’t share with the FBI and the Exactly.

You know, bureaucracy. Yeah. Meaning like we have because we have all the bear gun police investigation info, but the secret police we have nothing. No, but they won’t release. They won’t release. Exactly. It was like that’s and the secret police doesn’t have any in incentive to get the truth out there cuz it was them. Exactly. It’s like well also like why why aren’t we why isn’t the US government giving us all the data? Yeah. Because they don’t give a [bleep] what we care. They don’t give a [bleep] about what we think. They don’t give a [bleep] And the reason is they don’t national security. They don’t have to because it’s national security.

Exactly. Okay. Terrorist terrorizing. I got to bring it up. Possibility of that she just killed herself. Impossible. Zero fucking% chance. Like I I will go to the dude. I’ll bet I’ll bet everything I own that she did not kill herself. There’s a there there’s maybe a slight possibility that she the pills. Yeah. She started she got disoriented. She fell on the fire that she made. But then then but then somehow got away from the fire that she made [laughter] and so far away that they couldn’t find a fire in the general vicinity. Yeah. that this that that’s it’s just it’s just impossible. [laughter] It could be a little bit of both where she maybe was like I’m caught.

I’m I’m They’re coming at me right now. So, she took Oh, do something fast. Yes. Takes the pills and she urgent. Yeah. But then they catch up to her and then they’re they’re torturing. Either way, there’s nefarious things occurring. Dude, it’s impossible that she did that all to herself. She could do the pills herself for sure. Yeah, 100%. But the fire thing and then moving her body away from an active fire. There’s no if there was a trace if it would be so different if there was a [bleep] campfire like a fire next to her like or this ashes are like the remains of where a fire was.

Otherwise, how the [bleep] did she How did she burn herself? Yeah. How? Yeah. Even if the hat was covered in No, but the thing [clears throat] even if she had like that like cuz there was a liquor bottle, right? Even if she dumped that liquor bottle over herself and lit herself on fire that would burn out quickly. That that’s not a lot of that’s not a lot of fuel. Yeah. She wouldn’t have been burned the way that she was. Yeah. Like Yeah. She would have probably had 30°ree burns of her body for sure, but it wouldn’t have been that level of burn that she had.

Yeah. So it is impossible. Where is the fire source? Somehow she [bleep] back army crawled her way down the [bleep] mountain and get the [bleep] out of town on 50 [bleep] sleeping pills. Get the [bleep] they like left the matches there. I know. It’s like so literally it’s like a note that says I want to burn. It’s just like so ridiculous the matches. Look at the [bleep] It’s almost It’s almost ridiculous that they left the matches. That’s kind of absurd. What are they questions or is that it? Uh, I mean, how does one end up on a hiking trail in Norway alone and then get torched?

I mean, it’s pretty much what we’re talking exactly what we’re talking what we’re talking about. It’s impossible. It’s literally impossible. A Yeah, sure. A single a single person on a hiking trail makes sense. People go on hikes alone all the time. Like, that makes sense. But, but she was not there as a tourist. A person there to hike and and she also wasn’t in like hiking gear. Yeah. It’s like she was like there to hike. Yeah. And then is there any any anything in regards to her being a prostitute? I think it’s a loose I think the only way that’s even like remotely true I guess with but if we’re going which I truly believe it’s a spy angle that is a part of it that’s a big that’s a big bonus as a spy if you’re maybe not maybe it’s not a prostitute but a sedu sedu seductress seductress yeah it’s like you go in like that’s a like if you’re saying she was a good-looking girl.

Curvy. You’re going to use that. Oh, yeah. She said curvy. She was a curvy figure. Oh, dude. I mean, who describes a woman like that? Unless [laughter] plum. Dude, if I’m if I’m if if I’m a in the 70s and I’m a six-year-old ugly Norwegian bureaucrat, I’ll be like, “What’s up? What’s up, baby?” How do you say what’s up, baby? Anytime [laughter] somebody describes a woman as curvy, I’m always like, trust me, I mean, I was seduced by non-good-looking women in [laughter] college, like easily. I was almost seductress. So, needless to say, you know, if she had it going on, like that’s a bonus if you’re a spy.

Yeah. It’s not that you’re a prostitute. It’s that you’re using that to to achieve your end goal. Correct. You’re not getting paid. Alo, baby. Alo, baby. Oh, hell yeah. I’d be [bleep] adman, baby. For sure. Baby, 100%. Okay, so final summation. What happened to her? She was a spy. Okay. Yep. She was traveling around. I like this Penguin Project thing. Makes total sense. That’s some the real deal [bleep] especially in the 70s. Hondo. Cold War. Cold War data. You’re looking for an advantage. Yeah. like definitely into it. She got caught. She was on the run. She went up into the mountains. That’s obviously like it makes sense, too.

It’s like if she wasn’t in mountain gear, she didn’t go up there for like a stroll. Yeah. She was like trying to escape. I think she was maybe she took some of like she thought she was going to get caught so she started taking pills. Took more. She did that to herself. Yeah. I think she was like, “Dude, because it’s like uh like you you can’t Yeah. It’s the It’s either It’s like Yeah, it’s exactly the cyanide pill. Cyanide pill. Yeah. It’s like you don’t want to [bleep] get tortured and then killed anyway, so you’re like, “Fuck it. Might as well like And you’re very into the cause.” Oh, for sure.

You’re You’re not You’re not getting in that post unless you’re willing to die for it. Yeah. You’re into the cause. So then she starts taking him. They catch her. Then I I honestly think that the burn thing was a torture tactic, but I think she was already so [bleep] like gassed out like [bleep] b. And they were like, “Talk.” And then she breathed and she died. And they were like, “Fuck, let’s move her over here away from like an active flame.” And that’s just make it look so awkward that no one knows what happened and they’ll make it look so weird. So did she cut the tags or who did I think she did.

I think that was probably like a weird like thing like they can’t cover your cut them up. Yeah, that was just her in like the hotel room. Yeah, that’s probably why she switched hotel rooms. She probably hid the tag. [laughter] Switch hotel room. You know what I’m saying? Put them in the air ducts and [bleep] like I think it was just like a just a a safety tactic so people couldn’t trace you. Mhm. Yeah, that’s what I think happened. Okay. Yeah. And then obviously the the Norwegian secret police, they not going to say [bleep] about it cuz they don’t want anybody else to find out about this Penguin project.

And then they also don’t want other [bleep] They don’t want like the the international scrutiny. Yeah. We’re like a weak ass country. They get [bleep] nuked 100%. and and they don’t want in another country or intelligence or anybody else. Nobody is obviously going to come forward for her if she’s a spy. So that’s why it’s just like she’s nobody. Yeah. We don’t want the attention. It was a probable suicide. [bleep] wipe our hands. [bleep] Yeah. I mean, just pay the cops off and call it a probable suicide. National security. Here’s here’s a few $100. Got a couple croners for the [laughter] boys. We’re good. A little vodka.

So, you agree with him? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%. Cuz he’s a smart guy. He’s obviously intelligent human. What do you think, Eric? Tell me. Tell me what you think. There’s no ingenuity here. So, tell me. Tell me. I think she was a spy. Oh my god. I can’t believe it. Say it again. Say it one more time. I I do think she was a spy. Okay. But I think she killed herself. How? I think it was a bit like sloppy. No, but explain. Sloppy. Yeah. Yeah. Explain how through Explain how it’s possible. She took all the pills. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And then the pills [bleep] her up, right?

[clears throat] And then she had a fire cuz it was so cold and she tripped on the fire. No, but then but if you trip on the fire, you would be on top of the fire. There would be evidence of fire. That’s number one. Number two, when you do a little campfire, you don’t make a bonfire big enough to for your whole body. You can burn your entire front of your body. Yes, she made a goddamn [bleep] forire. [laughter] Yeah. Like what the [bleep] Now explain the petrol. Fell upon fell upon it. First of all, Eric, explain the hat with petrol. The hat’s tricky. No, quick quick.

No, quick rewind. She’s She takes 50 sleeping pills, then she builds a fire. Quick quick little fire build. That’s easy peasy. [laughter] The hat’s tricky. Covered in petrol. Why is it covered in petrol? Well, maybe cuz she was like, I’m going to dump it all on myself, but only on the hat. Did she think that the 50 pills was not going to kill her? Is that why she had to jump on the fire? Back [laughter] to the [bleep] Back to your point, though. She was like, “This is not working. [laughter] Remember, they’re done. [laughter] This is not working.” I think I’ll just put myself through excruciating pain instead to kill it.

instead instead of shooting myself or cutting my wrist, I’m gonna jump on a fire. But what’s strange is what contradicts all that is there’s multiple witnesses of people seeing men with her. Exactly. I just don’t think Eric it just like there would be evidence it if she did that it would be impossible for her to to get away from the burn site from the site where she was burned. Yeah. 50 literally dog put me on six Advil. I’m not getting away from the burn site. I’m I’m not I’m not getting away. I’m gonna be there. Do you remember Marilyn? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Remember the Yes, of course.

A bunch of [bleep] Mhm. And then she was I don’t know, dude. I’m just saying like if she were to if she were to take the pills, okay. Okay. It would be She took the pills. It would No, she took the pills. It would be physically impossible for her to move her body away from the site that she threw her body onto a fire. There was no evidence just from the scene itself. From the scene of the fire. No, no other thing. No, I’m saying just only the scene of the fire. She It would be physically impossible for her to move away from it, let alone so far away that they bruise.

The neck bruise is easily explainable. See the the rock next to her when she’s where she’s laying. Yeah, the neck bruise is easily explainable. So, [snorts] I’m not worried about the neck. Patreon Jorge is going to post and it’s very much it’s very it’s very much over 18. Uh it’s gruesome. Yeah. Yeah. It’s pretty gruesome, but there was a photo taken of crime scene. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a there’s So there’s a photo of her. I’m going to post the uh photo of the notes. Yeah. Okay. Um there’s another photo that shows like all the evidence kind of spread everywhere where you know where they found her body.

Mhm. And there was something else. But yeah, you guys will get all that. All right. I don’t know. This is tough. There’s a reason it’s a mystery. It is to this day. You know what I mean? It’s even though Sean’s The mystery is because it got Sean’s pretty It got suppressed. The secret the secret police. It’s not a [bleep] suicide. It’s It’s impossible. There would be an open There would be Do you think that the remains of a open flame right next to her body? Do you think there’s some MSAD library or KGB library that has all the explanations of of these like hits? Yes.

Or like like somebody knows somewhere. For sure. Somebody knows. I don’t think they’re keeping like a catalog of it because it’s just the guys who are the older the older the older agents. There’s probably some dude like in his home like [laughter] some like weird like legend. He’s got a ledger and he’s like he’s like I know I know what happened. It’s like one more tally and he’s like it’s just like a tally mark. He’s like got it. Oh, Catherine. Yeah, I know Catherine. He is He’s the c the cab driver is actually like the leader of the massage. He’s like oh I remember I remember exactly what happened.

I actually thought about that too. Like so they call the cab. Oh yeah. And the the secret police is like this is our shot. So they send an agent to pick her up. Damn, that’s good. I like that. There’s like a cab driver. I like that a lot. Holy [bleep] They’re like that. They have like the Of course not because he’s a [bleep] agent. They got the guy on the switchboard. He’s like, “We’ll be right there.” [laughter] [bleep] ching ching. I mean, we can’t be so ignorant to believe that there are no hits. There is, right? where there’s no like there’s like thousands of hits.

I mean there’s there’s hits all every day there’s hits. Are you kidding me? I can agree that like I would be a little Do you really to to assume that there’s Do you really think like [bleep] Seal Team 6 and Delta Force are like they’re just for like people extractions? They’re there to [bleep] put people to sleep forever. Permanent perma sleep. Yeah. That’s why they send them in. They’re like, “Hey, make these people disappear for us cuz like we don’t like them.” Yeah. Well, there you go, guys. Uh that’s the is woman. Uh you know, we always can’t forget. I know we joke a lot and stuff like that, but somebody went through a horrible situation 55 years ago.

Yeah. Uh and we do these episodes in order to keep those stories alive. And I hope that that story persists enough to find some sort of truth for sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. So there you go. Uh, let us know what you guys think. Uh, comment, post. What are your theories of the Ist woman? Any additional questions? If you’re in the Discord, you’ll get an immediate answer because yeah, I’ll just answer you. And we’re going to post uh uh in Patreon additional images and the the the code. Oh, yeah. The the the the notebook. The notebook. The picture of her. We have also the there was another sketch.

Yeah, the sketch. Yeah. all those sort of things. So, if you join the Patreon, you’ll be able to see that. Go to patreon.com/theconspiracy podcast. Yes, support us. It’s a it’s amazing. It’s a huge help. Join the community. Um, you know, couple hundred amazing people that are in there like real real time friendships. Like there’s I’m I’m telling you guys, like if you get in the Discord, there’s there’s all these channels, channels for your pets, channels for uh a lot of people game together. So like they get on there and they they play Call of Duty or they play uh GTA. Like they, you know, there’s a really actual cool community.

That’s like my favorite part about it is that like I’ve been talking to these people for 2 years now. Yeah. And like we have battles over [bleep] Wordle and like this whole thing. It’s actually like super fun. It’s like a an actual community. I love it. And coming up, we have our annual podcast, Fantasy Football League. Yep. Uh and so, you know, well, we’ll see how many people It’s got It got a little It got a little crazy last year. We need to really quantify the rules. Yes. And the trades. Yeah. What are you talking about, Chubbs? Yeah, Chubs. You know, you Yeah. Listen, you know, you Chubs is trying to trade like [laughter] it is the most ridiculous trade.

And I love you chubs, but like he’s literally trying to trade like Jir Gibbs for like Odell Beckham Jr. and it’s like it’s the most ridiculous [bleep] If you like if you if you know football, you know how crazy that is. Yeah. So, we’ll catch you next time on the Conspiracy Podcast. Night. What’s up, guys? I hope you enjoyed this episode. I want to invite you to join us for our Patreon. So, what that is is an exclusive membership. We’re going to be able to get exclusive discounts like 15% off on all our merch, and you won’t have to listen to these ads ever again.

Ads [laughter] ever again. Plus, you’re going to be able to access our minis episodes. So, that’s something that nobody else is going to get access to. They’re just short podcast episodes where about 15 minutes long or so. So, cool, you know, extra content that you’re going to get access to. I know. and all those other suckers are waiting for next Tuesday that you’re going to hit some minis up, you know, fill the void. That’s right. Instead of, you know, having to wait the rest of the peasants for the next episode. All you got to do is go to patreon.com/theconspiracy podcast and you’ll find us. There are many different levels there, all giving different amounts of content.

That’s right. All right, ladies and gentlemen. Night night. [laughter]