Hey guys, welcome back to the Conspiracy Podcast. Oh, [bleep] you. It’s almost like it’s almost like we finish each other’s sentences. [Laughter] And then the laugh at the end. And I I actually did feel good when uh in the text when I I dropped the dodgeball reference and then we both sent gifts and they were like I was like my man. You know what’s you know what’s going on. Me. Yeah. This is my fitness conig. We hope you guys are doing good. Happy Tuesday. Totally. Yeah. Welcome to September. Oh, it’s happy. Probably work day for you guys. A lot of a lot of you guys listen while I work, which is crazy.

I don’t know how you do that. I can’t work and listen to a podcast. Really? I got to have music. You can? Oh, 100%. Oh, I definitely can’t. No, cuz I feel like I got to like focus on like what they’re saying. And then I guess it depends on what you’re doing. Like for me it’s like if I’m working on like various like Excel spreadsheets and stuff, it’s like I don’t I I it’s all automatized like in my mind. I I don’t need to think about it. I just do it. Can you absorb though what you’re being told? Does that make sense? I can I can do podcasts, but I can’t listen to audiobooks while I can listen to audiobooks while doing like yard work and [bleep] The same [bleep] like you’re trying to listen.

You’re actually trying to like Yeah. I want I need to know what’s I need to know the story. And so if I’m working, a podcast is fine because I can still understand and like conceptualize what’s happening. But like audiobook, I’m like, “Fuck.” We appreciate you guys. Yeah. Don’t let talk you out of listening my way out of this. Like, why are you listening to us at work, idiot? Shut it off. Why are you Why are you in the Patreon? Uh, so we just got through COVID. Uh, and I don’t mean like physically. That was a long time ago. But, uh, we just did the three-part.

Was it? It was three. It was three part trace. 101 felt like five parts. Yeah, I know. Uh, but I actually love this this part of our show, which is that we just did a bohemoth and then we kind of like go to it. You know what I mean? Completely new topic, completely new, fresh. Yes. New time period in history to learn some [bleep] Yeah, exactly. So, uh, this episode has been requested by a lot of people and it’s and it’s about Ruby Ridge and we kind of mentioned it a little bit in another episode. That’s right. So, we did um the OKC bombing uh and we did a few parts, right?

We did a car and in that we mentioned Ruby Ridge and then we did get a lot of requests for Ruby Ridge. So, uh we’ve worked on especially while I was on vacay worked on uh the research for Ruby Ridge and it’s a pretty insanity story. Um and I was telling the boys earlier that it’s it’s a very much a story from start to finish. Um and so I thought it would be a perfect perfect episode to do. Is there a bunch of like documentaries for this one or what? There’s quite a few. Yeah. Yeah, there’s quite a few. Of course there is. Yeah, there’s quite a few.

There’s always documentary. Yeah. And so this is an early 90s incident. Okay. That happened. And um really what this story is about is the overreach of the government. Yep. What right down our alley. Did you imagine that the government would never overreach? What a weird concept. So, I feel like the boys are really going to be into it because it’s kind of, you know, it’s really a [bleep] up by the government and it’s the thing that I always believe in. Yes. Like, I’m always on board if it’s like overreach. So, here we go. And and this is just the summary out the gate, which is that in late August of 1992, there was an 11-day standoff on a remote mountainside in northern Idaho and it captured the world’s attention.

And by the end of the siege, a multiple people were dead and the name Ruby Ridge became synonymous with one of the most controversial confrontations in modern American history. I mean any anytime the word siege is used [bleep] holy [bleep] And this story actually led into Waco. Oh [bleep] And then Oklahoma City bombing. I mean this is like this is like the the crux. Yeah. So this is this is kind of the beginning and things started to bubble and then it went into Waco the Waco story and we’re going to do an episode on Waco as well. Okay. Um but then it led into OKC with Timothy McVey and all that sort of thing.

Yeah. Which he was there. Yes. Exactly. But like not part of it. No, but he was like a spectator. Yeah. Like he was in the crowd. It was really damn man. Yeah. It was almost a good man. Yeah. You remember his t-shirt? He had like Jefferson Thomas Jefferson quote like True. True. The t the blood of tyrants must be spilled from time to time. Yeah, something like that. That’s not suspicious at all. Sus as [bleep] Okay, so uh and we’re going to start from the beginning as we do on this show. Always always listen guys, if you’re not [bleep] up with the times. This is literally tell what we’ve been doing for two and a half years.

It’s like this is this is the setup. We do the story. That’s right. We get into the the conspiracies afterwards. Honestly, in the I’m actually very proud of it because a lot of conspiracy podcasts, they they dive, but like in order history, but see, a lot of times like the conspiracies that we have actually change after we go through the story cuz like I’ve had like made my mind up like this is what it is and I hear the story that I’m like, oh, you kind of see how it maybe it’s this instead or a lot of times for me like I may know about the story.

Sometimes I don’t even know actually about the story that you bring cuz Eric does all the research hardcore deep down. Um but it’s cool because then by the end it’s like okay you really get to kind of shape your own your own opinion about it. I’m a big subscriber of get as much data as you can and then and you guys are the same. I agree. Okay. So, uh, and we’ll start at the beginning like you said. Um, Randy Weaver, who’s the main person in this story, he was a former US Army engineer in Iowa factory worker who along with his wife Vicki grew disillusioned with modern American society in the 80s and and they embraced something called fundamentalist Christian and apocalyptic worldview.

Meaning, yeah, what the [bleep] They thought something was going to happen that would end times. Oh, okay. That’s I mean that’s not a weird I mean we got nukes. I get it. There’s [bleep] shit’s going on. But is this like a legit group or is this just their I mean in the 80s it was because we were also in the midst of the Cold War and the Cold War. Yeah. Yeah. So the Cold War, you’re right, where it was like Nikai Crush and the USSR and and uh Reagan with uh Gorbachev take down that wall, you know, that kind of Well, when you like I thought of that and I thought of the Russians and I thought of the missile crisis.

There was the Russians and the nukes and your and the nukes. So you know the buildup was was correct. So essentially they’re either scared and or uh preparatory. Yeah. I I don’t want to call it scared, but like No, they’re preppers. Yeah, they’re preppers. Yeah. I mean, we got that [bleep] going on still today. Oh, dude. We’re friends with one of them. True. So, they sold everything. Wow. Oh, damn. They’re like hardcore. They sold all of their belongings, their home, their everything. Okay. And they live off it. I know. Like pot committed. And they actually they they bought a plot of land in a hillside on on Ruby Palad on Ruby Ridge in Idaho.

Ruby. And so if you looked at a map, Idaho in this part of Ruby Ridge is as close to the Canadian border in Idaho as you can really get. Okay. So it’s basically Canada but America. But America. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So if you looked at it, it’s pretty wild actually where it is. It’s about 30 miles from the border. Oh [bleep] So if you like really zoomed out too and you’re like if you ran if you ran super fast in there a couple hours. Yeah. So essentially Yeah. There you go. There you go. That’s a great Yeah. Very close. And so what they did is they sold everything.

They bought this plot of land and then they built a house. Okay. On the top of a mountain essentially. I mean it’s pretty sick. I might do that just because not for prepping, just for like funsies. Classic prepper. Now, great. Go find homestead. Classic. Classic for textbook prepper. Now, to give you that playbook, sorry. Playbook. To give you an idea, it wasn’t a mountain. Okay. It’s a hill. Yeah. So it’s not and and I tell you this because later on we’re gonna have SWAT and we’re gonna have SEALs and FBI and so it’s a different thing to Yeah. to go up a mountain a mound.

Now that I know where this is, it’s like kind of crazy that um what’s the guy’s name? Timothy Mc Timothy McF. Yeah. He was all the way up there from I know what made us like just get in the car and start driving. Yeah. Okay. But maybe we’ll find out. We’ll keep going. We’ll keep going, Eric. So there, Randy built a simple cabin where he and Vicki raised their children, including Sammy, which is their son, and daughter Sarah, and along with two other younger girls. Damn. Okay. Back back when we we didn’t have the point ratio that we have now. Literally, everyone had [bleep] four kids.

So, this was offrid. Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. This is survivalist. I might be an [bleep] but I feel like the entire state of Idaho is offrid. I’m like that like by definition is offrid. Have you guys ever seen the uh the Alaska guy that like survives like offrid YouTuber? I don’t know how crazy that [bleep] I love it. Build a cabin. I do love it. Minus 60 like it’s all good. So in point of note, they had a family friend named Kevin Harris who often would stay at that cabin for weeks on end. Okay. Okay. So he kind of became almost like your I don’t know weird uncle.

Yeah. Like come down now. From early on Randy Weaver attracted attention and trouble due to his associations with anti-government groups. He was not formerly a member. Weaver also attended gatherings of something called the Aryan Nation. Of course. Yeah. [bleep] knew that was coming. So this is where we get into the part black people in Idaho. So this is where we get into the part of like like you’re going to be mad about what the government does, but are you going to be that mad? But like how is that even mad? How do you go mad? Like the government is predominantly white. Yeah, that’s the problem.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, it just becomes like a strange do you do you have enough compassion for this guy because he was he was racist. Well, at his own right like Yeah. I got to keep hearing before I answer that. I can like understand like I can agree with people’s sentiment on various things. Doesn’t mean I have to agree with their entire life. Yes. Like all of their decisions in life, you know? It’s like I don’t like [bleep] eggplant, but like doesn’t mean you’re a piece of [bleep] if you do. We can agree on other things. Well, Arian, except for No, not that’s that’s one of the other things that we can’t agree on.

Jorge liking eggplant is different than him. Yeah. Attending a white supremacist plan meeting. I was making a video like just because someone is an like an Aryan brother doesn’t mean like everything he believes in is wrong. Like they don’t right. That doesn’t that doesn’t like instantly make you back to the vaccine. It’s like, oh, if you didn’t take the vaccine, does that instantly make every decision you’ve ever made your entire life wrong? Of course not. Got like a you can disagree with one decision but it doesn’t mean that all decisions are bad. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. So the Aryan nation at that time was a white supremacist group and it had a compound.

Yeah. When was I thought they always were a white supremacist group. No like it was big. Like I’m just saying at that time it was huge. Okay. Yeah. Like it was a thing. Got it. Okay. I was like forgive my ignorance. Isn’t it the same [bleep] Like Aryan group and and and um Good question. Actually, I didn’t research present day Aryan nations. But it’s literally the same [bleep] It’s all the Yeah. Whites whites are superior. The Aryan race. We are like the and heavily against the Jewish community. Yeah. Like that’s that’s their that’s the number one. They don’t like the blacks either, but they’re like number one as Okay.

True. So, uh, they had a compound at Hayden Lake in Idaho. And so, he would go to those meetings. Now, he wasn’t a card carrying, meaning he wasn’t an official member. [bleep] had cards. Damn. They were legit like membership. Like a Costco [bleep] You got to renew your You got to renew your membership. You can’t come in. Um uh you get your white hoodie like your white your white [bleep] you get one a year. Okay, until you renew Unless you’re a uniform unless you’re a platinum member. Yeah. And it wasn’t just like oh he went to one meeting supposedly even son had a armband swastika for teenagers.

Okay. So this is literally like like it seemed like it’s like this it’s like that uh American History X a little bit. Yeah, you’re like Yeah. Weaver befriended a man who, unbeknownst to him at the time, was an undercover ATF agent. Oh, got it. Sucker. And so ATF is alcohol, tobacco, and firearms. Right. Um, and in October of 1989, this ATF informant persuaded Weaver to sell him two saw-off shotguns whose barrels were illegally shortened below the legal limit. And that firearm transaction would set into motion this entire Ruby Ridge confrontation because you can’t cut them. No, it’s it’s illegal. Yeah, I guess it’s to a certain point, right?

Like you can cut them. Yeah, there’s a certain length that you can Yeah, you can cut them. Yeah. So, basically, he went to this Aryan Nation meeting, befriended a guy. The guy was an ATF agent. I feel like these homies are always so trusting. Yeah. And uh weirdly not. What’s that word for like enttrapment? Is it enttrapment? You may have a skewed definition of of an entrapment. Cuz I think that even if they’re undercover, like if they’re undercover, you don’t they can still That’s the whole point of being undercover, right? Okay. I’m sorry. It’s It’s the act of the action of tricking someone into committing a crime in order to secure their prosecution.

Sorry, my bad. But again, if they’re undercover, they don’t they don’t have to say, right? I don’t know what the law is. Uh it’s it’s entrament is a practice in which a law enforcement agent or an agent of the state induces a person to commit a crime. Gotcha. So let’s say us three are sitting here drinking drinking a little bit la. And I am an agent that you guys don’t know about and you had no intention of going to do to rob a bank or I don’t know to do something. So I’m like hey Sean let’s go. No. So that’s I was just reading. I was like I know people have used that like enttrapment as like a defense.

Yeah. And it’s if you can use it a defense if you can prove that like they for they pretty much co like fully like made you do like hey you should do this do it. Do it. And they’re like I I don’t really want to. Like no do it. I think it happens a lot in prostitution because you’re not I’m not necessarily looking for it but then Sean’s like hey I got a thing. Come on. Come on. Let’s do it. Come on. Come on. Come on. Come on. looking for. You were just on the corner. You were just on the corner like talking to cars.

I’m wearing a thumb. I wear this everywhere. Duh. No, but the key thing there is intention. Like if you had the intention and premeditated type of thing to do something, then it then it’s not enttrapment. But if they convince you to do it, then it’s entrament. Yeah. Anyways, so there you go. So after the shotgun sale, ATF agents approached Weaver and tried to pressure him into becoming an informant himself for the Aryan Nation. You want to go to prison, please? I ain’t no rat. Well, yes, you will be. Get 10 to 15. Weaver flatly refused and he said, “I’m not.” Oh, he straight up refused.

I’m not a snitch. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. In June of 1990, federal authorities filed weapons charges against him for the illegal shotgun modification. And rather than risk an armed raid on Weaver’s mountaintop home, agents devised a ruse to arrest him away from his property. So in January of 91, ATF officers posed as stranded motorists with a broken down truck near the homestead. Of course, Magna, you’re like, “Of course I’ll help him out.” Yeah. Uh Randy and Vicky Weaver stopped to assist the motorists. The agents arrested Randy on the gun charges and then he was released on bail and given a date to appear in federal court.

God, what a way to like make someone like never do another good deed ever. Dude, I know. I’m never [bleep] helping another person. Got Also, why are these people so intent on getting this dude for saw sawing off a shotgun? I know. Literally, there’s like a sting operation. Convince him to buy it. Like, please, please just do it. I like I don’t think What if a regular shot? No, no, no, no. You want this. I need to saw it off. I bet there’s more to the story of like FBI agents going like we’re trying to take down the Aryan nation. I think Yeah, I think they’re always interested in the bigger face.

They’re they’re not like trying to [bleep] this one random. And he was like, I’m not a snitch. Oh, they’re like, okay, [bleep] you. Oh, let’s take him in. We’ll see if he rolls. Yes. Yes. Classic. So what playbook playbook [bleep] playbook. So here we are, right? And so he was uh released on bail and he was given a date to appear. Mhm. Okay. And what happened next was a critical miscommunication that caused this entire situation. The trial date was changed by the court to February 20th and a notice was sent to Weaver’s attorney, but a US probation officer mistakenly mailed Randy Weaver a letter saying that the court date was March 20th instead of February 20th.

Can you sue over that? I’d [bleep] sue. I’d be like, “Fuck you.” So, this is the start. This is the start of you boiling. They did this [bleep] on purpose. And you’re on a hill. You’re on a hill. Yeah. Alone. You’ve got your own property. You already hate the government. And here are dude and you got rifles. Yeah. Your kids got rifles, you know. So, this erroneous letter caused Weaver to believe he had another month before he had to go to trial. Unaware of the date change, Weaver did not show up February 20th. Well, no [bleep] He was then issued a bench warrant. Ah. For failure to appear.

God damn it. shortly after. But doesn’t he have a [bleep] defense if he got a letter in the mail saying March 20th? But who keeps those letters? Also, he’s on a mountain. Like, yeah, who knows? Like, literally. Shortly afterward, a local reporter discovered the letter error and brought it to the attention of the court. The chief probation officer acknowledged the mistake and informed the judge and US Marshall services of the mixup. However, the judge the judge refused to admit it and pull the warrant back. [bleep] him. go to take his ass to jail. So on March 14th on Weaver’s federal prosecutors convened a grand jury and secured an indictment against Weaver had it out for this guy for failing to appear.

Yeah. And without informing the grand jury about the letter miscommunication. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So they didn’t even they didn’t let they didn’t let a jury of his peers. So he was indicted with this like cuz you need a jury to indict you. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, but they didn’t let the jury know that the letter it’s not this is not important. You don’t need to see this is what I’m saying about the the justice system. It’s like it’s not like a welloiled machine. You were saying this in the other episode we did. Yeah. So for Wayne R for R [bleep] [bleep] for Wayne Randy.

For Randy Weaver, these events confirmed his worst fears. As a staunch separatist with deep mistrust of federal authorities, Weaver perceived the bungled court notice as a evidence of conspiracy against him. So what did he do? He retreated to the hilltop cabin. Come and get me. With weapons and ammunition. Yeah. secured his quote unquote hilltop bunker. That’s what he said. That’s right. Yeah. So, according to later reports, Weaver began to believe that he would never get a fair trial and that if he surrendered, the government might even seize the land and take his children away. By early 91, Randy and Vicki publicly vowed not to be taken alive and were determined to resist any attempt to arrest him and or anybody coming on their property.

So So they were just there the whole time like they just Yes. Yeah. Wow. So like So at that point the Weaver family hunkered down. Yeah. And essentially fortified Yeah. making a joke for I mean do you I mean the guy’s already doing criminal [bleep] so I don’t feel that bad for him he’s like a criminal for real but I mean I don’t think he’s like but criminal super wrong. No no but criminal in what way cuz the off shotgun. Yeah. And but I mean you know I mean I mean you mod your weapon. Let’s be honest. Everybody knows that. Let’s be honest. Behind closed doors homie probably doing other [bleep] Let’s be real.

You know you’re doing like if someone asked me for a set off shot be like go [bleep] yourself no. Yeah. How about no? Right. So this went on for a long time. How long? A year goes by. What? And the US Marshall Service was then tasked with bringing him in. Oh. And he’s like, “Come get me, bitch.” They made numerous attempts to resolve the situation peacefully. Marshall spoke to the Weavers through intermediaries like friends and like mailman Jeremy. Oh, like go up and Yeah. And the best part is they they know where he is. And I was like, you know, they know where he is.

Like Yeah. So they they made numerous attempts and you know, we touched on it like they even got friends. The mailman even posed as interested real estate buyers really to try to Yeah. to try to get him. Yeah. Looks very nice. It’s kind of like, you know, you need to be served. Oh, yeah. And then they like trick you to do it. So, they did so many times. Yes. So, this just kept going like for I don’t know why they worked. So, this is the part that I don’t really get. It’s like his [bleep] So far, we’ve been talking about a year in, which is crazy.

All this government effort to get him to come in. Yeah. Right. Like, I don’t know. over over a saw off shotgun. Yeah. Like Well, at at this point it’s over a Seems a little strange. Warrant. Yeah. It seems strange. I don’t know. No, but maybe they just have nothing to do. I was just about to say like look where they are. Yeah. Like I don’t think the bureaucrats are super like stacked up. Yeah. What are you doing this weekend? Oh, I’m going to I’m going to go talk to this guy. It’s like trying to get [bleep] Danny what what’s his name? [bleep] Benny. So eventually though he was marked as violent and armed.

Yeah. Where’ they get the violent from? Well, because matter that’s what they need to justify them coming in. He’s a terrorist. Yes. Exactly. Terrorizer. And they post 911. It’s like you’re a terrorist. Terrorist. And they started to increase their surveillance. So they would see him on his property with cameras always walking with rifles and his kid walking with rifles. And the remember the guy who’s like his uncle or I don’t know his uncle he’s walking rifles. So all of a sudden now you have everybody’s got rifles. You have militia likeuations. Government cannot have that. With a rifle militia straight up militia. So they literally started putting cameras up and they called this was operation northern exposure.

And that was you know operation northern expo. This is a terrible operation name. And the whole goal was to monitor the family and to get more data about their defensive positions. Yeah. Mhm. Um all of this created a tense atmosphere. Law enforcement profilers viewed Weaver and the family as a potentially dangerous extremists, though some of their intelligence was later criticized as being overblown. 100% sound like it. Well, it’s it’s really e like it’s e it’s the guy was in a kind of ai [bleep] sandwich like you’re part of the Aryan Brotherhood so it’s very easy to be like extremist right it’s like super easy um additionally like the first couple years in this whole situation couple years oh my god like does he ever go to the grocery store like what is he just Uber he’s just Uber eats everything for 5 years squirrels and deer It’s only on his property though.

Uh, no. In the circles it became that he was a green beret. Almost like Rambo living in the thing. But was he really though or was like self-proclaimed? No. And it turned out he was not a Green B. He was like no military experience. No. No. Granted, he was in the military, but he was it it wasn’t Green. It wasn’t Green Beret or Special Forces. It was military. Christ. That’s Jason Borne. Hold on. Jason. So complicating everything, the Weaver case became uh began attracting attention away from his situation and to the Aryan nation because the compound was super close. Oh, I mean Yeah. And clearly he’s been he’s there all the time.

Yes. Exactly. the uh they were just starting to like the community started to get wild and they even like people were sending letters to President Reagan saying that like this is turning into a situational situation by this time it’s all over the news and [bleep] enemy of the Yes. So we just started to get another Will Smith movie there we talked about dude Jean Hackman Jean I actually really like that movie I love that. Yeah. Anyway, so it just started. You see how just bubbling? Oh yeah. Yeah. It just keeps getting worse and worse. Getting weird and and worse. And at that point, the government just like you can imagine the superiors are like just do whatever to like whatever.

Just [bleep] get bring him in. I don’t give a [bleep] what you say. He’s violent. Just extremist. So the spark that turned into the standoff happened in August 21st, 1992. Now keep in mind we So we’re about a year and a half in. Okay. Yeah. And um on on that day, August 21st, a team of six US marshals were dispatched to Ruby Ridge to conduct reconnaissance on the property. If possible, the these were their orders. If possible, quiet quietly arrest Randy in an ambush away from the cabin so as to not disturb anything. Create a scene. So these US marshals decided to wear full camo like ghilly suits M16 rifles.

Okay, quietly don’t make a scene. So just the logic here is you So obviously you’re approaching a person who’s anti-government and terrified of it. He’s got a superior position. Oh yeah. Right. You’re on a mountain fortified with weapons. Yes. Exactly. So what do they do is they go and they go I’m in camo gear M16 rifles and it’s surveillance only. Yeah, surveillance only. So they stealthily infiltrated the terrain and the homestead before dawn as well. As they moved through dense forest, the marshall split up into two groups. The thicket below the cabin, they came upon a fork and a trail later called the Y. Unbeknownst to the marshalss, the the weaver’s yellow lab, which was named Striker, sense something was wrong.

The dog picked up the scent or the sound of the intruders began barking wildly. So, the family was alerted. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Randy Weaver, the 14-year-old Sammy, and friend Kevin Harris grabbed their weapons. So, they were plentiful. So, there’s the 14-year-old, there’s Randy, and then there’s the friend. They grab their rifles or their weapons. I thought he was an uncle. No, I just rec Uhhuh. Randy went in one direction down a logging road. While Sammy and Kevin, accompanied by the dog, took another striker took another path through the trees. As Randy circled around, he encountered one team of marshals and reportedly exchanged a few words.

[bleep] you. Then retreated back toward the cabin when they identified themselves. I got my rides. Moments later, Sammy Weaver, which is the kid, and Kevin Harris unknowingly came upon them on the other side of the Y. Remember the intersection? They were following the dog. What happened in the next few seconds is subject to dispute and has been recounted differently by each side, but then leads into the conspiracy andor proper police procedure. Yeah. First the dog gets shot. As the trio approached, the first one shots a dog. As the trio approached the marshall’s hiding spot, Striker ran ahead and a marshall shot the dog dead immediately.

And wow, like no hesitation. Sammy, the kid behind seeing his pet killed, screamed, “You shot my dog, you son of a bitch.” I mean, that’s totally justifiable reaction. Firefight alert. That was like the like what started the war. It’s like the helmet of Troy was like the right start the [bleep] war. Angered and alarmed, Sammy fired a shot in the direction of an unknown in bush. Yeah. The marshals were in camo and they didn’t even know. Almost immediately, hail of gunfire with the M16s ended in the initial seconds, 14-year-old Sammy was hit in the back. Oh, this is already sketch. He’s like fleeing. He was in the back.

Wasn’t like shot in the face. He was shot in the back and almost died instantly. Almost. Well, we don’t know. Okay. Right. Well, just when he was checked up on like later. He was dead. Assumptive. Yeah. Um, now he was per the weapon forensics, he was shot by a 9mm submachine gun by a deputy marshal. Okay. So, not the M16. Yeah. Who? Okay. All right. Confusing a little bit. Yeah. It makes him feel like maybe he was shot later cuz like you’re not you’re not going to be shooting a 9 mil at range like in that situation if you have an M6. the the dad or or the the friend.

No, they they traced it to one of the marshals. They did. Okay. Marshall’s firearm. That’s what I’m saying. Like if you’re in the [bleep] woods like this realist, like realistic. Mhm. You’re never going to be like, “Oh, I have a [bleep] rifle that is meant to shoot. I can shoot up to, you know, 150, 200 yards with this thing and like be pseudo accurate or I’m gonna take out my nine man, right? And then just like close my eyes and like pray that it hit something. Yeah. Uh meanwhile, Kevin, so it’s the uncle. We don’t want to call him uncle anymore, but like the guy the guy the dude.

He started returning fire with his um and Sean helped me out. 3006. Yeah. 3006. Yeah. So with his 3006 rifle, Harris fired one or two shots. One of those shots struck Deputy US Marshal William Bill Degan. So see guys, like the movies are not real. This is what actually happens in gunfights. Everyone gets shot. Like there’s no like 100% missing. Uh he was killed instantly. Oh. Wow. I did not anticipate that. So now the Mar, you know what I mean? Like now they’re pissed. Now we got Yeah. Now it’s like they got to die. Uh, in a matter of minutes, two people and the dog were dead.

Sammy Weaver and Marshall Degan both lay lifeless in the forest. Jesus. As well as the dog. So, the surviving Marshall scrambled away through the woods, taking cover and radioing in for help once they realized that one of their team was down. Sammy’s older sister, Sarah, later recounted that from the cabin she can hear her brother yelling, “I’m coming. Follow. I’m coming, Dad.” like I’m coming to get like help you followed by the sound of gunfire and Sammy’s voice screaming in pain. [bleep] O, this is rough. Randy Weaver rushed to the scene from his separate position and helped carry his dying son away from the clearing.

Um, Randy and Vicki laid Sammy’s body in a small shed nearby and then the weavers retreated into their cabin. Hey, it’s Ryan Reynolds here from MIT Mobile. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint’s offer of unlimited premium wireless for $15 a month is back. So, I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that’s very illegal. Uh, so there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.com/switch. Upront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. New customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy.

Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they’ll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card in the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families, helping kids learn how to save, invest, and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving. While kids build money confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk-free Greenlight trial today at greenlight.com/spotify. That’s greenlight.com/spotify. You just give up at that point? Like [bleep] your kid just got [bleep] your kid just died.

Kids died. Like I mean maybe that would just piss you off even more. Like to the point where you’re just like [bleep] it. Yeah. Nothing. Nothing matters anymore. He’s been standing his ground for a year and a half. It’s like Yeah. Well, yeah. This guy’s not going anywhere. What am I talking about? He’s probably got the [bleep] place rigged with like claymore minds, dude. Honestly, on the law enforcement side, the situation had instantly escalated to a crisis as a federal agent was down. Uh, also Marshall Cooper had slightly been wounded and while the fugitive and his family had holed up, armed and now with even greater motive to resist, the US Marshall Service immediately activated their crisis center and called for assistance to the FBI.

And h how many marshals like came up? Six, right? Yeah, it was six. So, one down, one wounded. One down, one wounded, one kid dead, one dog dead. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. So, they went back and they were like, “Hey, we’re down a man.” So, they activated some special button. Yeah. Some sort of like Yeah. But, uh then the FBI was called in. Uh they descended upon the area and within 24 hours uh hundreds of FBI agents showed up. Yeah. And this is when this is when it gets even crazier. It just keeps going. Yeah. Uh and so they then set up uh they mobilized like a you know like a makeshift tent and base camp surrounding head of like operation command.

That’s right. And so that was August 21st and that was the start of what would become uh the 11day standoff. Like I got I got enough [bleep] squirrel meat in this [bleep] I’m good to go. Uh so moving forward August 22nd, the next day uh with a deputy marshal dead, the FBI assumed command of operations at Ruby Ridge and implemented something called special rules of engagement. Oh no. This is where they start using like weird like [bleep] mental warfare. They like cue the music. It’s like [bleep] like blaring like weird [bleep] Some rock music. Well, it would later spark intense controversy because normally law enforcement use of deadly force is restricted to situations where there’s an imminent threat of life.

Yes. But this ROE rules of engagement drafted for this situation was extremely aggressive. FBI snipers were authorized to shoot any armed adult male on site. Adult male wife. That’s it. Yes. No, the wife is still there. So of Oh, male. Yeah. But so effectively the roe or the uh rules of engagement. Rules of engagement were shoot to kill. Oh, sounds like it. Yeah. Yeah. There’s no like uh I mean at that point just burn the [bleep] house down like like if you really like want to get it done. Yeah. I mean, by the way, like if a sniper is shooting, they’re not shooting to injure usually.

No, you’re you’re shooting to kill. Yeah. Yeah. You’re not shooting to like incapacitate. Yeah. Yeah. That day, FBI sniper Lon Horuchi was lying in weight on a hillside approximately 200 yards from the Weaver cabin. Around 6:00 p.m., Randy Weaver, his 16-year-old daughter Sarah, and Kevin Harris emerged briefly from the cabin. About the daughters, too. [bleep] Oh my god. They emerged briefly from the cabin and walked to the nearby shed where Sammy’s body was. Yeah. Fearing no law enforcement had yet made contact or announced themselves, the weavers likely did not know that snipers were on them. As the trio of Weaver, his daughter, and Harris reached the shed, then started to back to the house.

Hachi opened fire on the girls. All of them. Oh no. His first rifle shot struck Randy Weaver in the arm, tearing through his flesh, but not incapacitating him. Randy, wounded and panicked, shouted for the others to run, and they all sprinted back to the cabin. Seconds later, he fired another shot, this time targeting Kevin Harris. The high velocity bullet hit Harris in the chest, passed through his body, and then continued onward into the cabin. In an awful turn of fate, the bullet struck Vicky. God damn it, dude. So Vicki was the wife, so she had a ricochet. What are the odds of that happen? It’s like [bleep] astronomical.

She was hit in the face. Oh my god. She was hit in the face. Yeah, dude. Damn. She was hit in the face while she was holding the 10-month-old infant daughter. Oh my god. Vicki was instantly killed. Yeah. Uh she fell to the cabin floor, still clutching the baby. That’s super sad, dude. Kevin Harris, though grievously wounded by the same round, managed to crawl back inside and the family was left reeling. And that’s Didn’t Didn’t you say it went through like his chest? The Kevin’s chest. Yeah. And then And then it ricocheted into the house and it hit her in the head. Hurt in the face.

Isn’t Kevin the Okay. But he was still alive, but he was still shot in the chest. Yeah. Like gonna die soon. Yeah. So, in that time span, there’s 14-year-old Sammy in the shed and then the 43-year-old mother, Vicki, had been shot in the face. Also, Kevin was severely injured and bleeding cuz he was the one hit in the chest. He’s got minutes. Yeah. Miraculously, the infant child was not hurt in any way. That’s Thank Okay, this like the one silver [bleep] lining is terrible story. Now, the death of Vicki was a flashoint of the Ruby Ridge saga because she was an unarmed woman carrying a baby, making her the death symbol, so to speak, of like government overreach.

The sniper later stated that he had not seen Vicki behind the door and it was simply an accident. But to the Weaver family and the growing number of onlookers and supporters, it appeared the government snipers had shot a mother holding a baby without provocation. Oh, I can imagine the the chaos, the no warning. That’s why everybody’s like up in arms about it. Oh, for sure. Yeah. She’s literally Yeah. I’m just I’m just taking care of this child. I just happen to be in this house. Yeah. the rules of engagement in that uh order or issue or whatever permitted him to trigger pull and it and it came under scrutiny because even within the FBI some witnesses in the FBI said they were shocked that they had just full reign to shoot people.

Yeah. Just just kill but not all people just males and so they shoot him. Yes. Correct. Just unfortunate. Yes. Correct. But even still that to have such an open like even in Iraq even in Iraq we didn’t have we had to wait no most of those guys had to wait until they were being shot on yeah you had to be being like shot at outside the FBI and other law enforcement personnel surrounded the area with armed agents armored vehicles spotlights etc. It just got overwhelmingly like large and like this is almost like a war zone a big circus. Yes. The weavers though were like this is we’re being overridden by the government and they’re killing our children.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. I Yeah. All for a bit of a small I don’t want to say a small saw off shotgun sought off shotgun charge that or like failing to appear. I mean, I think this is definitely a little out of proportion, but yeah, you know, I Comey like was like pretty much in a fortified position for over like for two years. It’s not like they didn’t give him ample chances. They like 400 chances to leave the property and he’s like, “No, [bleep] you.” Yeah. Meanwhile, the news of this unfolding drama spread around the country and it became a national media sensation and thing going on, especially cuz it wasn’t just a story that just ended.

It was like going Yeah. Yeah. So, for 10 or 11 days, it just became a media circus and then far-right activists and white supremacist supporters flocked to the area to the lowest uh to the to the road that connected the whole place. Yeah. And this is where we had talked about like the formation of leading into Waco and um um all these groups Oklahoma City is what they do. This is what they [bleep] do. Neo-Nazi and Aryan Nation members arrived to protest and show support for the Weaver family, treating Randy as a folk hero that was standing up to government oppression. folk here by by going into his property and staining the ground of his home against this oppressive United States government.

Like that’s fine, but like just cuz it’s your house doesn’t mean like you have like you’re like immunity. That’s like the laws of the land. Well, in my house, I do what the [bleep] I want. So a not a lot happened in the mid uh five days between the initial shootout and then you know trying to um uh negotiate without much success etc. Right. So just not a lot happened. Um there were third party mediators that were brought in. Uh not a lot. Yeah. They were not doing well. Yeah. Not very successful. Um it’s been a year and a half. He’s not backing also. They’re like, “Yes.” And you I’m not answering the phone calls.

I’m surprised he’s he’s still alive. You know, I know. And you know what’s even the craziest part about this whole story is that during this five, six, seven days. Yeah. The wife is dead on the floor of the kitchen and the child in the in the shed. And the kids in the shed like this is And then Uncle Kevin is got a bleeding. Like I don’t know why they haven’t made this into a movie. Like bleeding. He should this might be a movie that might be a movie. Chris Pratt. Chris Pratt, please. Ruby Ridge. So by the end of August, so on August 30th, so we’re now eight or nine days in the Ruby Ridge standoff finally edged towards a conclusion thanks to the intervention of a civilian negotiator.

Uh, one of the main figures was James Bo Gritz and he was a decorated Vietnam veteran and a former Green Beret. Oh, so he’s an actual green. He’s like, I remember you from my balloon, right? Like, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. He’s like, okay, cool. Actually, he was running for president that year. So, he’s like, this is going to look great on the rez. But he was in this fringe party that got like 04%. No chance. And it was called the populist party. Yeah, that that’s why that’s a terrible name. Yeah. And and strangely enough, he briefly ran with an exclansman. Yeah. This guy’s tracking a little bit.

This guy’s this guy’s part of the the Yes. But his campaign was very anti-govern. And so some say that that Weaver kind of was like, “Okay, I’ll talk to this guy. This guy know I voted for him.” Yes. Exactly. Of course I know this guy. So he volunteered. He flew out there and he volunteered to literally just walk up to the house and be like, “Let me talk.” Hey, buddy. Yes. Yes. And uh Randy knew Weaver actually respected him and was a bit of a hero to him. That’s what I’m saying. He probably like knows that. Yes. So, he made several trips up to the hillside carrying messages and ultimately speaking face tof face with Randy from a safe distance.

He assured Weaver that he was not there to trick him and even prayed with him. I assure you, I’m not here to drink it. Oh, well, and now that you said it, of course. Speak your mind then. Bo, uh, let’s breathe. Bo later recounted that he found Vickiy’s body laid in the cabin and the surviving children distraught, but he was trying to negotiate during with the body laying there in the middle of the kitchen. Very difficult. Can imagine. He promised Randy that if he surrendered, the infant and girls would be cared for and Randy would not be harmed. Gradually, Grits gained Randy Weaver’s trust, appealing to his responsibility as a dad and nothing more.

Mhm. You know what I mean? Like powerful motivation. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, additionally, Bo helped communicate the fact that Kevin, the guy who was shot in the chest, was dying. Okay. like you got to surrender now or he’s dead and you’re next basically like come on. So there was got to there had to have been like some affection to Kevin dying like hey you know we got to like well Kevin dying his wife dying like he’s got the other kids to worry about. It’s a lot of a lot of emotion. So on August 30th Kevin agreed to surrender and be taken for medical treatment largely at Ry’s urging.

Uh Randy did not want his friend to die on his floor. Harris was carried out on a stretcher and arrested once he was in federal custody. He was then rushed to the hospital. Uh the next day, August 31st, Randy Weaver finally surrendered with his three daughters. In an enduring image, Bo himself escorted Randy out of the cabin down the hill, and the nation watched on television as the siege of Ruby Ridge was over. So, he did actually manage to talk him down. Mr. looking for the dub. So, after the shootout at Ruby Ridge, three people were dead. Uh, 14-year-old Sammy Weaver, the mother Vicky Weaver, and Deputy US Marshal William Degan.

Uh, Kevin Harris was extremely wounded and Randy Weaver had a bullet in his arm. Um, the Weaver family’s home had been riddled with bullets, windows shattered, and the front door was peppered with holes. Um, anyways, not a good scene. So, in the wake of Ruby Ridge standoff, federal authorities moved swiftly to prosecute Randy and Kevin for the events. A grand jury indicted Weaver and Harris on a host of serious charges, including first-degree murder. Okay. Okay. Conspiracy, even though his son [bleep] killed the guy. Yeah. Assault on federal officers. Uh, essentially, the government alleged that Weaver and Harris had planned and executed a deadly ambush on federal agents.

Wait, what? They’re saying he was Yeah. Yep. He planned it. US marshals and officials publicly painted the Weavers as dangerous radicals living in the hills. An armed separatist brigade. Okay. I mean, no. No. Cuz that’s just not true. An armed separatist brigade. That is the most overex. There was a a 14-year-old boy and like two adult males, a brigade, separatists, Star Wars [bleep] Weaver’s defense attorney uh went along the route of self-defense. I mean, I protecting the family. Yeah, I can see him believing that. He was in his house and he but he was he did have the warrant. So, yeah. So, it’s like I I feel bad, but I don’t feel bad.

Also, the misleading court date that was [bleep] up. You know what I mean? That was a big [bleep] fact. I feel like that’s his bitter bit better argument. And the fact that the judge is like, “Well, no, it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter that we [bleep] up. It’s his fault.” Yeah. The conflicting evidence of who fired first at the why. You remember the the crossroads, so to speak, uh was examined in detail. The Justice Department later determined it was unable to determine conclusively who fired. Of course. Of course they can. Right. Forensic experts testified about bullet trajectories. Notably, one expert said that Marshall Cooper probably fired the shot that killed Sammy, but Oh, probably.

unknown. And after weeks of testimony, in July of 1993, Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris were acquitted of all charges. No way. Oh my god. I did not see that coming. What? Yep. Both of them were acquitted. Yep. Get the [bleep] out of there. He was only charged with failure to appear, which is not even his fault. Like the one thing he should have got off on. Yeah. Are you serious? Now, but at at this point, it had been a year and a half or whatever. Everybody That’s why they’re like, “Wait, what happened to three people dead?” I mean, they probably are like feel bad like his son’s dead, his wife’s dead.

Yeah. And they’re like whoever whoever if there was like whoever the jury was the prosecution tried to get the death penalty everybody. And then homie got acquitted. Yeah. So like Yeah. You got to think of like who’s on this who’s on like the who’s part of the jury. Yeah. These are like salt of the earth so he got the max sentence for failure to appear. It’s like six months. 16. Six months. Wow. That’s a lot. That’s I mean I I charge that for that. Yes. I mean I think everything like tax evasion. Yeah. Literally. But most of it was spent in trial. You know what you do like time served.

Mhm. So you know he was in jail not prison for but Kevin the guy who got shot in the chest was acquitted of everything. Like he never did. He’s like dude I was just on the couch. I don’t know what do you want from me. Like I don’t even live here. Legal humiliation of the government did not end. Both Weaver and Kevin Harris filed civil suits against the US government. Did they [bleep] win for wrongful death and civil rights? Um the US department opted to settle instead of going to court. And in August of 95, Randy Randy received 3.1 million settlement. Damn. Well, here’s the thing.

Specifically, the Vicki, his wife got shot getting shot in the face while she’s holding their infant son. That’s not a good Sammy 14-year-old boy. You know what I mean? Well, the thing is like if the government like they don’t really have anything to lose. They’re like, “Okay, we’ll settle.” Yeah. Print it. Kevin Harris received $380,000 in settlement. Wow. It’s not bad. But his took 10 years, so he didn’t get it until the 2000s. And by then like with inflation and he’s like [bleep] it’s too late. Got a bullet hole in my chest. [bleep] that guy’s got like problem. I mean that’s pretty interesting turn of events there.

I was not expecting that. Well, I just think it’s like they obviously shouldn’t have happened but like if they would have just did things different obviously these guys are not getting off. Yeah. Now, a couple things are brought up before we get into the conspiracies. One of which is, do are we okay with the government being able to shoot somebody you love and then a monetary settlement? Meaning, the shooter didn’t Do you know what I mean? Like, well, the the main mistake was giving them this like free will to shoot on site. Well, hold on. Hold on. Yeah. One at a time. What? Okay. What?

What are you asking? Yeah. What are you asking? Are you Are you trying to like make a case for the government or what? No, no. I’m making a case that maybe that the the shooter should have been charged with something. Oh, the guy who Oh, no. He shot the woman in the face. Well, no. So, it was an accident. Yes. Well, you said it was You said it went through his chest. That’s what he That’s what his statement is. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he obviously wasn’t aiming for her, right? He hit his target and then like Yeah. the magic bullet and he was operating under the rules of engagement that they told him.

He’s he’s clear, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’d be different if they were like, “Don’t shoot anybody.” He’s like, “Oh, I’m shooting him.” Oh, it’s [bleep] up. This is why they got special rules of engagement. This is not even like normal. I know. But that’s what I’m just saying is just how [bleep] up is that? Super [bleep] up. But this is a year and a half into a standoff. You got to escalate it at some point. I some I do agree with it’s like you can’t just like let this guy just I mean where like when’s where’s the SWAT team come in and just like going through his air and like [bleep] you know they’re silencering him like in his own house.

Yeah. Obviously like the wife getting shot in the face is terrible. Horrible. Like that’s really bad. Horrible. Yeah. And and the kid I mean they were they were they were due reconnaissance. They’re not there to like try to take him out. Yeah, that shouldn’t have and he had a weapon. Big- headed thing is you don’t know how like if you’re if you’re positioned and and you see somebody who’s 14, you could be big. I don’t know. So again, according to the story like he shot at them at the officers and we don’t know officers. Well, that’s true. We don’t totally know, right? The why but but the fact that he was shot in the back.

Yes. Yes. So he probably shot and then ran probably. Okay. So scenario one, he probably shot. He’s running away like scared and then they shot him. Return fire. Yeah. Or he was just walking. They shot him. Shot his ass. Yes. We’re tired of this [bleep] and we’re like we’re ending this now. Yeah. See the thing is like you can’t like in this situation and they had special rules of engagement. So like they shouldn’t have had like these special rules where they could just get the shoot on site. It’d be different if homie had hostages. Yes. Yes. It’s like his family like Yeah. Like it’s not like Yeah.

They robbed a bank and like they’re like holding the bank teller like at gunpoint. It’s like literally like him and his kids and like his homie. Yeah. So I think that’s a I don’t know why they got these special [bleep] rules of engagement. Like I honestly just assume they would just like [bleep] tear gas the house until he like runs out and then they just like take him. Yeah. I mean like nowadays that SWAT they they got these [bleep] like tanks. They could just roll up there with Wow. Dude, roll in there. Yeah, you can’t do [bleep] They got some that can that they have like this I don’t know like like a like a big penetrating like spiked looking thing.

A big green. Yeah, they [bleep] penetrator large WNBA just penetrates the door. So here here are some of the conspiracies that tie into the Ruby Ridge. Now, one of when one of which is that this was the formation of American militia and like uh arming yourself and uh they were here in 1776. That was the forming of the American militia, my man. That’s very true. That was American militia. Perhaps the most notorious consequence of Ruby Ridge legacy was the role in ideology of domestic terrorist Timothy McVey. Mhm. Uh and Timothy McVey was the the responsible individual of Oklahoma City bombing. Yeah. McVey visited the site of Waco and Waco was inspired by Ruby because it was the anger of of that of everything going on.

And then on top of it in an interview McVey said Ruby Ridge was a motivation for him bombing the federal building. Seems like such a justification though. I’m gonna blow up these innocent people who work for the government and their scheme and and [bleep] McVey killed 160 children or Yeah. What a piece of [bleep] Yeah. That’s what I’m saying. Like this is not this is not like a good reason for you to kill innocent people who literally haven’t wronged you. Yeah. Especially you’re killing like clerical workers. You’re like, “Yeah, take that government. All these people who literally didn’t make these laws that I’m pissed off about.

Take that typist.” I know. It’s like literally stroggrapher. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Uh, another one is is that it was fully entrapment. Like they forced him into barricading himself in his house. Well, no, they they talked him into doing the crime the crime in the first place. So, he never committed a crime from the get-go, but Oh, okay. Well, he did he did commit a crime. Yes, correct. Well, and just even a defense, it doesn’t mean he would got off. Yeah. Okay. What? For what motivation? What’s their what’s what’s their motive on that? So then the other one leads into small time criminal. [bleep] yeah. No, the other one leads into it, which is that they didn’t know how to get the white supremacist.

They didn’t know how to get the Aryan. Oh, they were thinking if they squeeze him hard, he’ll break. He’ll fall. They’re going outside of the legal realm to just get the job done, which is entrapment. And the shoot tokill conspiracy, which is that why the [bleep] did they do shoot to kill? That doesn’t make any sense. A family that’s locked down in their home. I know. No hostages. They’re not like This is not like they’re not endangered to society at this point. Like they’re not like [bleep] They’re not like have like bomb vests on. Yeah. Which is that essentially that they that it was the they created the they created a situation.

They created a situation and then it got to a point where like you’ve already you’ve just gone too far and you just got to like see it through. See through. Yeah. You can’t you can’t like back out now. Cover up. Cover up. Cover up. [bleep] We already shot We’ve seen this. We shot the kid. [bleep] Now we like we got to we got to shoot the rest of them now. [bleep] it. Like uh and then just a couple things of like what happened to everybody. Uh Randy Weaver, uh the main guy, he short he served that sentence. Um, and then he kind of became uh a folk hero of anti-government and he did appear at gun shows, rallies, gun shows.

Uh, I mean, um, he wrote a couple he wrote a couple books. An early influencer. He wrote three books. Three. Wow. Wow. You know what I mean? About the experience. Um, he died at the age of 74 uh, two years ago. Oh, wow. [bleep] Yep. Um, should have had him on the pod. Kevin Harris, who was 24 at the time, he got the $380,000 settlement. Uh, 10 years later, low profile, not a public activist. Um, he uh would be in his mid50s today, but we don’t really know much about him. Still living on still living on his homies couches. You know, some some law enforcement think that he was the one who killed the marshall.

Yeah, got away with it. The boy get shot in the back. It’s not like he I mean, I think he was he was probably scared just running like, “Oh my god, I’m not trying to get in a [bleep] gunfight. I’m 14.” Yeah. And then like Yeah. Homie like shoots into the in the woods. The sniper never faced criminal charges. Um, but you know, he maintained a low profile afterwards. Do you think he should? I think he I think maybe I think he should go back to sniper school. I mean, he should Yeah, he should hang up his sniper boots, call it Call it quits. But essentially, that’s the story.

I mean that now a lot of people say Ruby Ridge was the beginning of Waco was the beginning of this movement in the ‘9s etc that kind of was the man and the militia against uh American government tyranny. See, it’s just like, but I don’t know, you know, I don’t know where that thing is. It does this like and this riles people up, but like meanwhile, like we have way, okay, I’m not saying way worse, like that’s not bad, but like people get riled up about that, but like meanwhile, they’re happily infringing upon all of your rights daily and then people are like, “What’s the problem?” Like this is this is cool.

Like government rules. They love it. I have nothing to hide. Like that’s what everybody always says. No, I’m like I don’t It may be true, but it doesn’t mean that they It’s not about having anything to hide. It’s about having your rights. And like it doesn’t make it okay. Well, if you’re, oh, well, I’m innocent. Well, that doesn’t make it okay for them to do something illegal. Yeah. But see, that’s like rules for thee, not for me. Yeah. Government makes the rules and they don’t have to follow their own rules that they make. One of the one of the last conspiracies of this is uh the concept that the US government andor and Ronald Reagan wanted to squash any concept of American uprising of militia.

Mhm. So they went in, they overextended their bounds. They they you know what I mean? They went in and they just squashed it. I mean, the only the only flaw on that theory is like, oh, this family of six people, like, yeah, we put them down. No, none of the other 300 million people are ever going to think about militia. I mean, militia. I’m like, that’s not like I love past tense. Militia. Militia. And and the other part of that is Ring is like trust me. It took him a [bleep] year and a half. Took him two years to put them back to squash them.

They don’t look good, huh? I know. It’s like homies could literally just like post up and be like, “Fuck.” Yeah. And also, actually, this is more uh Bush one by the time it all happened. Is this is actually Bush One, not uh not um not Reagan really. I mean, you know, the 80s and the movement leading up to it. Yeah. Yeah. I just think like the the whole the the way the really squash militia is like, “Yeah, let’s take your guns.” Yeah. That’s that that’s how they do it nowadays. It’s like, yeah, well, you can’t have them. See, they’re so dangerous. Yeah, they’re so dangerous.

Yeah. If you have like Meanwhile, it’s like, well, the places that don’t have guns have the most violence. You’re like, hm, weird. It’s weird how that how that functions. I think it started all off with a shady ATF agent for sure. That I agree. Or at least at least they they were too too ambitious. He Yeah, he was like trying to push it to the push it to the limit. More of what I meant. Yeah, that’s true. That’s a better word. Like a super ambitious like and he was willing to do I get mine. Push. Yeah. And get a little shady. And I think he did.

And then the little Idaho Idonian administrative [bleep] clerks. Do a little fugaroo. And then once that Marshall died. Oh, they were like, “Fuck it.” All hell broke. All it’s like we got to end this [bleep] now. So, but do you you agree it was government overreach? I think that outside of their at first the ATF agent, you know, probably I I won’t say framed him, but like enttrapment or whatever, right? And then and then as far as like uh he missed court this and that, they go after him. But whether that was kind of like part of the conspiracy or not, I’m not sure about that.

like as far as moving the dates or you know the letter with the wrong date and all that. What I do know is like then it extends for a year and a half. It’s like it’s too much. It’s it’s way too much and then they just have to do what they got to do. They got to escalate at some point to end this. But it took took a wrong turn. They did get basically cart blanch like okay special rules of engagement like shoot you know shoot to kill. Yeah. two to kill and like literally and if you if you say that to a sniper that’s been training for years then he’s going to take the shot and usually they don’t take any shots like a sniper like they’re not you know it’s not like they’re [bleep] killing people left and right so I think the sniper’s like trigger happy and he’s like oh I see this guy outside and takes a shot and then you know take the hits the hits the uh the mom or the wife sorry yeah Um, and yeah, and then just [bleep] all hell breaks loose and they got to like end it at that point.

So, do you think there’s nothing to do with the Aryan nation? I don’t think so. I think at this point there’s no nothing to do with it. Maybe in the beginning I think in the beginning he’s like, “Hell yeah.” Yeah. Yeah. We’re going to take him down. It’s a compound. It’s the biggest compound in Idaho. It’s It’s like the thing. It’s like you’ve The government won’t admit they’re doing anything wrong, so you have to just stay the course. Yeah. So, it’s like Yeah. They make a [bleep] up and they’re like, “Oh, we sent you the wrong date.” Well, doesn’t matter. It’s you’re still at fault.

And they just they just can’t be they refuse to admit like any wrongdoings. So, they just keep pushing it. Keep pushing it. And then it gets to the point where they did overreach and they did overstep their bounds. Like, did did this ATF agent [bleep] really like, you know, push the envelope with getting this guy in these, you know, charges with the with the gun? Maybe, maybe not. I mean, that’s debatable. I mean, the guy could have been like, “Fuck yeah, I got sold off shotguns. I already hate the government. [bleep] why would I follow their rules? But then then I think I think the main overreach started happening cuz they just wouldn’t they wouldn’t admit they did anything wrong so they just kept pushing it.

And also like like maybe it was an entrapment but like especially if you’re into guns and [bleep] like you you might be willing to just [bleep] buy a saw off shotgun like [bleep] it. Yeah, like give it to me. I live off the grid off on that [bleep] mound. I mean it’s not like you’re buying it to go shoot up a mall or something. You you live in the middle of nowhere. You minimum. Yeah. And you’re into guns. You got all kinds of rifles. And that’s by the way, why would you have a From a gun perspective, what what benefit does a saw off shotgun?

It’s easier to kill people at close range. Okay. So, it just spreads out. So, like a like a regular shotgun, the bullets spread out. It’d be like this. You can just grab it. Like, if I’m like coming through the doorway there, you’re going to see it sooner, right? It’s also It’s like if I shoot like you can shoot. If I shoot a shot off gun here, you’re both dead. Yeah. Like both of you are dead. Yes. It just goes like if you were with a big spray in front of me anywhere you’re dead. I get it. Everyone died. So what’s the the law of it is to just prevent so much destruction.

Yeah. It’s it’s like or what would be the benefit of the law? Yeah. It just it’s just a it just becomes a deadlier weapon. Okay. I mean it’s just the same reason like they ban like you know you can’t have a fully you can’t have a fully automatic weapon. It’s like it doesn’t make it like it just it just it’s more deadly to more people. It’s a more deadly thing. Okay. Yeah. So, do you think do you think uh I mean there were hundreds of people protesting anti-government things. There’s a reason why all these hundreds of people showed up there. But I’m just saying because it starts to like gain traction.

Remember more than a year. I know. But why are they there? That’s what I was going to say in terms of Jorge’s like point that he’s making is like yes, I get it that they’re protesting, but like like is it really government overreach if they let you post up in your house for a year and a half? Like don’t come to court. It’s not really o overreach is like oh well the court date’s tomorrow you’re late. And I was like what? It’s tomorrow. Too bad. You remember uh this happened uh more recent than than this one. Um I think it was in South Dakota I believe.

Remember this? It was like a ranch. It was like right around like right before CO I believe it was and it was like this guy um I think it was like South Dakota and it was some having something having to do with like the oil pipeline or some [bleep] Anyway, same [bleep] They were like they were like hunker down their they were you know protecting their their property or whatever but then eventually the government you know over over rent. Yeah. I mean there’s also the age old question is like you know it’s either you have unlimited freedom or you have, you know, the government. So, it’s like, you know, do I believe that, you know, on your land you should have the right to kind of do as you see fit?

Yeah. Yes. But there’s like the flip of the coin. It’s like, does that make it okay to still to do [bleep] up illegal [bleep] Like, you know, if you were killing people on your land, is that okay? Well, no. I think there’s like there’s a suspicion of illegal activity. There’s a balance. There’s it’s a there’s a balance. And I think that there’s like basic human decency that should be like followed but then but see like I I have to like go against my own argument because it’s also like you know like I was saying earlier it’s like you either want rules or you don’t want rules.

Yeah. Right. So it’s like if you want the freedom, which I think we should have and we have an unaliable right to to to have freedom, especially with like on our property, our lives, our families, like our choices, but like homie did break the laws of the land. And I’m not saying that like killing his family is like the suitable thing to do, but they gave him he was holed up for a year and a half. I mean, Jesus Christ. If I had a [bleep] parking ticket, I’d be like in shackles right now. Like, yeah, they would have [bleep] It’s pretty incredible. My [bleep] So, do you It’s pretty incredible that they lasted cuz it’s not just him.

It was like a whole family. They lasted that long out there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Can I Can I choose that they’re both wrong? But real quick, they’re both both governments. But real quick, do you So, you you don’t agree with all the people that showed up that said that it was government overreach? Yeah. Like these people traveled there and then protested on the road. No, but this is travel to pro people travel to protest far less than this. Back to back to the playbook. Like even back to the play. You sure Soros didn’t pay those? It’s true. Like Yeah. I mean, even just recent with the whole COVID riots and and and protests and stuff like that, people are getting bust in from other states.

They’re getting bust in to protest in other states. So, it’s like you’re never going to make everybody happy, bro. People are going to [bleep] like you want body autonomy, but then you’re like pissed off that people aren’t you’re you’re bitching at people for exercising their body autonomy. Yeah. So, it’s like, you know, no one’s ever going to be pleased. All right. Well, I have my summary then based on I always go I think they’re both wrong. I’m going both wrong. Yeah. I always like he’s an [bleep] and the government’s an [bleep] I always like to get both of yours before I do mine and then, you know, that makes me feel better.

Uh, no, I I actually agree with you guys, you know. Uh, but I think they I think they overreached in their efforts and they messed up and they did a [bleep] up job and for sure the sloppiest [bleep] police work that could could have been done. Um, but you know, he broke the law and uh I kind of agree with you in that sense of Exactly. You know, so both I think we’re on both sides. They’re both wrong. Yeah, both sides [bleep] up. It was a [bleep] up story. Yeah, he [bleep] up. They [bleep] up. Like, he should have just turned himself in. Like, so that’s why I’m saying like it’s he has to take some respons He has to take some [bleep] responsibility for like telling his family they’re going to barricade themselves.

Like at some point he [bleep] like lost it and became like a kind of psycho and put his family in jeopardy. I would never do that. He knew something bad was going to happen. I mean, there’s only one two ways that it happened. You’re either you’re either walking out of there or you’re getting carried out after a year and a half and they have like a base camp set up out like you’re like maybe the maybe this won’t go well. Yeah. All right. Well, there you go guys. That is uh Ruby Ridge and it’s going to lead into Waco. Um because literally Waco is on the like it’s the next year.

Yeah. And then OKC, right? And so you can kind of see that there is a bit of a buildup of Mhm. People getting mad in the Midwest or not even the Midwest. Where is this? Like this is Idaho. This is like the North like Northwest, I guess. Northwest. Yeah, you call what do they call that? The There’s a word for it. I don’t know what it is. The sticks, I think we were looking for, dude. Come some of our Idahoans. Idodian. Idaho. I think it’s Idaho. Idaho. Why do you uh there you go guys. Uh if we missed anything, please, you know, send us a message.

I know there was some more about the media that we didn’t necessarily touch on, but it kind of dragged on for like 7 days of, you know, uh, media chaos. And so, we just didn’t really necessarily bring it up that much. But, um, send us a message. Uh, give us, you know, give us a follow, give us a review, let us know what you guys thought. And, uh, give us a Patreon subscription. Yeah. That’s what you really need to do. [bleep] the reviews. Give him the Patreon. There you go. It’s uh what is it? It’s www.patreon.com/theconspiracy podcast. Yes. And and obviously this was and it’s 2025 so we don’t need www.

Yeah. I think we’re on http Eric’s still like on AOL. He’s giving you the dirty page right now. Eric’s like, “Go to ask Jeieves.com.” www. worldwide worldwide webs. The worldwide web. No, but I wanted to say like, [bleep] you. Sorry. This is a rough episode, you know, because it there is no happiness. There is no right answer. Like, you know, the government [bleep] up. I think he [bleep] up. You should never put your family in that position. M you know if like if you really believe the government is overreaching like the best way to go about it is to try to go like the the not like [bleep] kill everyone route.

Yeah. Like that’s not the right way to do it because you are putting your family in jeopardy. Granted, I think they took it super out of proportion. But I just wanted to say like it’s a rough episode and we’re not like that’s why I’m like in the middle. I think we all were in the middle. Like this is not us being like h he’s wrong or the government was like vindicated. They’re they’re both they both did wrong. I just want to say that cuz I know this a touchy one and I don’t want people to be more like I could see myself in Weaver’s spot like totally dude.

I got guns and I [bleep] up but I would never put my family in a position where that they could be in the crossfire. Yeah. I just couldn’t do that. Like no matter how pissed off I was at the government, like I would have them chase me in the truck and then I’d make a standoff somewhere else. Yeah. I would never like be like, “Oh, my [bleep] wife and my kid are in the house face.” And that anyways Patreon. Uh but there you go, guys. Uh we’ll catch you next Tuesday. Tune in. Uh we’ll see you next time on the Conspiracy Podcast. Night.